One week to go!

Haha, I see what you mean! Well, she's 26, so nearly early 20s :) Thanks ZLJ and Yuandong :)

yep，乖巧 is certainly a very good option. The only thing is that depending on how old Christine is. 乖巧 will be perfect for teenagers or early twenties. :)

The issue is xiao_liang, you may not want to mention this to Christine.....By the way, this is Yuandong from AI Speech.

Of course I'm no authority on this but 乖巧 looks like a good word (from the explanation my C-J dictionary is giving). Seems appropriately like the kind of thing the parents' generation would say about the children's, grown up or not. Again it may not be a perfect match, but it seems like you have enough options on hand and now only need to decide what you guys like best in this instance.

Oh, apparently, she was considering using 乖巧 which has a lot of connotations to do with someone who is well brought-up, socially appropriate, and also lovely?

Thanks for all this help, anonymous AI Speech person (and everyone else!). I think 可爱 doesn't quite have the same meaning in terms of "cute" that perhaps that word has in english, so might be suitable, especially combined with considerate.

Thanks all, much appreciated! Hard business this translation game!

Hello, actually, 周到 is a very good one. I think 您可爱而周到的女儿 is better than 细心. If xiao liang would like to take out of the 可爱，then you might want to say 您细心而周到的女儿 because from a native point of view, 您周到的女儿 sounds a bit weird. Not because of the grammar but because of habit, we simply don't say that that often.

I think Zhen is right. I had the same initial thoughts as you xiao liang when considering "可爱" but When I translate using Kingsford roll-over it says: "loveliness", "likability", "prettiness". IM translator says "amiable", "cute", "lovely". Perhaps you would prefer something that means considerate, such as 周到？Since it is coming from a native, I would think that "您可爱而细心的女儿" (the AI suggestion) is probably a good one.

Jason? John? Jen?

Hey XiaoLiang while you wait for someone who knows (btw, not that it matters but I think AISpeech's suggestion is very good):

Why do you think between the two of you you're having trouble with the word? Yes, lovely is specific. It's also English. I guess you're saying Christine is not perfectly clear on what is meant by it? Otherwise she would have no trouble producing the Chinese that works best, right? So you'd like someone like, well let's face it, Jenny or John or Jason to help out here.

People express emotions in different ways in different cultures and languages. 可爱 isn't just about "cute" (and of course "cute" again is another word with more than one use/shade), that I'm sure Christine could tell you.

"Lovely" is difficult to express in Japanese also; I don't think there is one word that is an exact match in Japanese. That doesn't mean that a Chinese or Japanese can't understand the feelings that make an English-speaking person say "lovely" of course. Believe it, many words aren't going to have an exact match!

Hmm. But cute? That just seems wrong. She's trying to say she's lovely, as in a lovely person... It's kind of a specific word, I can't believe there isn't a translation!

Dear RJBerki, 妩媚 normally isn't seen as a compliment. So careful with this. 美好 only uses with things. i.e. 美好的爱情。

So literally, 您可爱的女儿 is the best choice.

On the other hand, I guess in this context, xiao_liang's mum is trying to say Christine is considerate and helpful to do the translation. So I guess

您可爱而细心的女儿 (your lovely and considerate daughter), from my perspective, is probably better in this case. :D

how about 妩媚 or we just had 美好 in a recent lesson.

您可爱的女儿?

您妩媚 的女儿?

您美好的女儿?

do any of these work?

Well, in for a penny, in for a pound ...

Don't get me wrong, I'm an omnivore. It's just surprising to me because every vegetarian I've ever known has been ... less than adventurous - even with a scope that limited - as far as food goes.

More power to you! And meat!

Yea, I wasn't wild about them. But we did have some nice salt and vinegar ones back here this weekend. As for vegetarianism, I guess that's the power of love? Something like that, anyway :-)

Oh yeah, the Olympics! I wasn't even thinking of that.

Hah! I know what you mean. They were all talking about the 2012 olympics and I was thinking, "hope mum is ready for visitors..." lol

thanks mike! I'd love it if you'd share some of yours, although I know these things are private so I understand if not :-)

Lol, well I think both are fine, but the second was definitely what I heard day in and day out!

Hey is it 多吃一点 or 吃多一点? Always thought it was the former, is the latter good too?

Once that burning question's out of the way I think I can settle in comfortably to start reading your blog (nice pictures!).

tal,

thanks for explaining mate. Sorry, I was just trying to expand on my list of one [being youtube] so as to be more considerate of you guys in China. The last thing I wanted to do was cause trouble.

"interminable discussions"

...fair enough. I'll drop it mate. Cheers :)

Perhaps I'd better say something to explain my amusement at your desire for 'a reliable list of blocked sites which is kept updated'. Regardless of XL's wikipedia list (which I have not looked at actually), seems to me such a thing is almost impossible and quite possibly pointless. My own experience is that the number of blocked sites is literally countless, and some of them are blocked one week, and unblocked the next. Sometimes they are blocked one minute, then unblocked the next. This is in keeping with the style of the censorship, which I am quite sure is intended to endlessly befuddle and frustrate. I also think that making such a list is just asking for trouble, but then that's no bother to China hobbyists who don't actually reside in China, or who come here for holidays or business now and then.

Anyway gents, no offence, but I really have no time or appetite for these interminable discussions these days. I try and keep up with using CPod to learn Chinese though, and that's really what it's best for I've come to feel.

Hee hee, as long as you're not copying down my Chinese. I model my Chinese on China Telecom ads and SMSs from my Chinese mates. Apart from dialogues here of course. Lately I started copying sentences out of nciku and going through them with a native speaker - it was only then I realized that it must be like Wikipedia, some of the sentences are just wrong. Still, good exercise to pick the wrong ones. (So hard for me to correct broken grammar.) I used to copy slabs of stuff that miantiao wrote, because he was so prolific, some of it must have been right. Then he told me not to; modelling is a challenge.

thanks for the tip mate. I wonder what the best blog site in China is then?

I come from where the wind begins. No key, I AM the CPod server, or should I say a little program in it just spitting out random comments,hehe. Now for my next trick.....

Nah, mate, I just copy down your words of wisdom like a good student, hehe ;)

I think it has horrible formatting, particularly of picture captions. Plus it doesn't let you customise enough things e.g. I can't remove the posting dates from every entry, even though they make no sense with this sort of blog.

But that's just me... :)

What I would like to know is, how did you get those posts back!? Have you got a special key to the ChinesePod server? :) That was a pretty cool trick.

Hi xiao_liang

Thanks mate - you make me feel special. :)

Hmm, perhaps Wordpress is not the easiest - I wrote a couple of entries there and I've never been back. Actually Yahoo went from being one of the worst to a reasonable site last time I looked. But Yahoo itself; it seems to be awfully slow to open and move around the site. The actual blogging facility is much improved.

Wordpress is easier reading for me...very interesting blog. I wish I had a friend or relative to show us around in the different countries during our whirlwind trip.... would have made a big difference ...relatives/friends versus tourist guides.

没问题。呵呵我是一个很好奇的人

sorry mate, (re the missing posts) I wish I could tell you it was something sinister, like go manly back from the dead, but truth be told, I think I did it myself as I dozed in my chair here. My fingers grow heavy on that mouse button. Sorry, I didn't realize there were any other replies attached either, until you waxed all investigational. But you saved em, so all is well.

good effort mate. Why is wordpress Horrible?

love the pics btw. :)

There you go, bodawei, just for you (and anyone else in China):

http://chiduoyidian.wordpress.com/

p.s. wordpress is HORRIBLE :)

yeah, but that wouldn't explain the other disappearing posts, and no email was sent explaining a deletion so I'm reasonably sure that it was some random tech glitch or I wouldn't have reposted it. But I'm happy if it is deleted if there is some problem. No biggie anyway. You're last comment is interesting. 令人想起来二十六年以前

It could have been the 'learning about sex by watching animals do it' - quite inappropriate in my opinion. :)

Speaking of censorship, my better half posts academic materials on QQ for her students. When this all started she noticed quite a distinct lag (several minutes) between the original post and when it became visible. She asked 'what's going on?' and a student said 'oh, that's just the Government (sic) checking to make sure what you posted is suitable'. Still not sure if that is Chinese humour or real. Or if it is real, I wonder if it is someone in our university who checks the class groups postings.

ChinesePod.

Ok, I'm going to assume those last 3 posts disappeared due to some technical glitch, and not due to moderation [ especially given RJ's post amongst the 3 was particularly short and innocuous [IMHO] ] and re-post them below. Forgive me if I have the wrong take on this and from my point of view feel free to remove the comments if you think they are unsuitable.

Avatar

RJBerki in reply to bababardwan

baba,

In my experience one can never spot any "giraffes" from the night before, once the next morning rolls around.

3 hours ago from the Web. Reply

Avatar

bababardwan in reply to RJBerki

RJ,

hehe, you're probably right. Maybe someone will have to point 'em out to me.

bodawei,

"I don't want you worrying about this"

..thanks mate. I just hate to miss out on a good joke. :)

"very very very long"

...I guess I half suspected that may be part of the amusement. Possibly I wasn't clear enough what I was really after. If I post a link to a youtube video, poddies in China get upset because they can't see it and naturally feel left out. Part of the problem here is that in some situations it's hard to find the same video anywhere else, but I usually do try and at least I'm aware of the issue. Same thing happened with xiaoliangs blog. If it had been me writing it, I would not have been aware that that blog site was being blocked in China. So I thought it might be useful for the sake of poddies in China to have a list for the rest of us so we're aware what's not going to get through there. I guess it wouldn't have to be comprehensive, just a list of the ones poddies are likely to use for such communication on the boards.

"the idea that people publish sites that are potential targets, for the apparent convenience of the regulators"

..right, I see what you mean. That wasn't my original question though, but I did follow up with that question about possible alternates and I see the problem. I guess just the list of blocked sites, or if alternates are posted, things like tudou that are mainstream Chinese sites [and in my opinion therefore seem unlikely to be blocked or made a target for regulators]. Thanks for your patience in explaining mate. I think I understand your mirth now...always better to laugh than cry I agree, hehe.

53 minutes ago from the Web. Reply

Avatar

bodawei in reply to bababardwan

'mainstream Chinese sites'

Definitely the way to go.

Actually, people forget in all of this that the Chinese sites often carry material that to my mind is far more challenging/threatening than anything you see in the Western media. (I know I have gone on about this before.)

This is an area where there is a great deal of misunderstanding on both sides (China and the West). My students in general really do not understand the Western media, but worryingly they have ideas that are quite bizarre from my point of view. Similarly, people in the West have ideas about the Chinese media and censorship that I think are equally mis-guided.

PS. This is way off topic but too funny to pass up. I was skipping through a Chinese writing textbook for English majors yesterday and saw this discussion about sex education (written in English.) It has a little quiz at the end. Q1. How did you learn about sex? A. (i) From watching animals. (ii) Your parents. (iii) Your teachers.

3 minutes ago from the Web. Reply

what happened to the 3 replies after this one?

You didn't happen to snap any pics of:

...did you?

No, sorry. They were already cringing and begging me not to read the English, so taking a picture of it would have been a bit rude :)

"It's always weird meeting internet people for the first time"

..I'd be interested to hear more.

Well, don't you think? You get an impression of people via the internet and they're never quite the same. It's very possible to create a certain personality over the internet, and you tend to find people seem somehow to be a paler version of the full-colour you expected from their writing...

Oh, sorry about that, it's just a standard blogger template I used...

Went to your blog site... great looking pics, but I had difficulty reading the text....fading white on blue background makes for strained reading.

I got it, the vpn is on top of an ISP account. I was thinking you meant this vpn was instead of an ISP and was unfavorable because it cost money. My question then was are the other isp's free then. Clear now, I think. Oh and to be clear I was only talking about home service.

no you never used the word banned. That was me, but I meant blocked. Im still just trying to figure out how it works. You say having a vpn gets around this and those cost money so I assumed there is some sort of free internet without vpn? In the US there is no free internet. Everybody pays for an internet "service" - I pay $40 per month for this. A VPN is using internet lines to develop a private sub network in the workplace for example. That is the only use of the term I have come across in the US. I mean we have censoring and blocking perhaps on public tv because it is free. Cable tv which costs much more than internet solves that problem. So I guess Im still confused as to what is the standard model, how does the avg person get internet, and what does it mean to have a vpn?

I'm the wrong person to be giving advice because I have never paid for a vpn. They range from free to quite expensive (maybe $80 a year?) with everything in between. Like everything I think you get what you pay for. The free ones seem to be tracked down and blocked by the Government; I'm not sure if they ever block a paid one - probably not. I imagine they block the free ones because they don't want everyone getting around the blocks for nothing - it would make the firewall all seem a bit pointless wouldn't it?

Are they technically illegal? I don't know. Actually I'm not even sure what that means exactly. Hopefully someone can put us straight there.

I don't think I used the term 'banned' (sorry if I did) - certain sites are blocked. ('Banned' sounds more serious, as though the authorities are bent on 'closing some operation down'. As these are off-shore activities in the main that clearly is impractical.) Some just from time to time. And it seems that this includes some vpns.

'free govt controlled and financed public internet' - not sure what this means either exactly, as I explained in my IP the business model for the Internet here works pretty much the same as in the West. Everyone pays one way or another. You pay through your taxes to some extent and usually there is a fixed charge (your phone line if you use ADSL) and a user charge based on volume of data. You can of course buy unlimited downloads, and you can get three different speeds from the largest provider of ADSL where I live China Telecom.

Also - you get big discounts if you pay in advance (up to a year is possible as far as I know), and there is no 'contract'*, that is what I like about it.

* By contract I mean those arrangements we have in the West that involve signing up for a year or two to secure a certain level of payment, but you have to pay even if you discontinue with that provider. I am strictly a pay-as-you-go kind of person these days.

so I just had a conversation about this over the weekend. What I learned is that for FEE VPNs that require a US credit card have no problem working in China. FREE VPNs and VPNs that require a Chinese bank credit card tend to be blocked, or stop working after awhile. This has been consistent with my experience. Not sure what other expat experiences have been.

I wish I had kept a journal like this when I first went to China. Good job documenting your thoughts; it will be fun for you to go back to your diary 20 years from now to see what you were thinking then.

I think you should clarify what you mean by any given internet site is "blocked" - you mean you cant get it for free. It is accessible. Right? For a few dollars a month? Or are these vpn's expensive? Are they technically breaking the law by making these sites available? Because saying its banned in china makes me think so. If its just a matter of a given internet site not being available on free govt controlled and financed public internet,, that is quite a different story. Which is it?

It is actually a pretty short list (when you note that it includes ones previously blocked) but I am doubtful that it is much use. Even if it was accurate, which is doubtful. There are lots of things that are blocked for a short time. And it understates the level of censorship, on several levels. (Big topic.) And overlooks the fact that anyone that wants to can get around the restrictions anyway. Making it an economic (or class-based) censorship. But also interesting is self-censorship (eg. in the media) - & the vast majority of the people are quite happy with the blocks.

Baba

I don't want you worrying about this!! :) The list you asked for is not that funny (unless it happens to be very very very long .. that could be funny in a black kind of way - I must go and have a peek). I was calling to mind the idea that people publish sites that are potential targets, for the apparent convenience of the regulators - that is what I thought was funny. But who knows, this is the Internet - probably there is a list!!

thanks mate. That was exactly what I was after. Now I'm wondering what I said that was so funny. I guess it was my phraseology. 我也有点儿累，所以大家晚安。I think I should take a fresh look at this in the morning and see it I can spot my gaffe.

Something like this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

Sorry about putting it on blogspot bodawei - like I said, it was mainly for my parents...

hehe, you know I did just make out this little bell in the back of my head that said this was going to be a daft question...but when have I paid heed to that bell before? hehe. It's funny how some of us are only funny when we're not trying to be, but I'll take any I can get hehe, and would ask the same question again.

The site I am most aware of being blocked is youtube. If there is nowhere that lists the other sites that are blocked, maybe we could start our own list of the important sites that are blocked [with an added bonus being a suggestion of an alternative site that isn't blocked...eg instead of youtube one can try toudo or youku]. Do I hear more hilarity coming?

'Is there a convenient list of banned sites somewhere?'

Baba, someone on ChinesePod asked something rather like that before, referring to free vpns, didn't they?! It was, I think:

'Does anyone keep a list of vpn sites that are not blocked?'

LOL!

I hope I didn't make that whole thing up. My creativity goes wild when I am tired. And tired by the way is not a euphemism, I am drunk on nothing more than European hot chocolate.

sorry mate, that probably came out wrong [hehe, though I do note your emoticon is having a jolly old time rolling around laughing...hehe...very good]. I know these blocked sites must be hen mafan, bushi fangbian. I was hoping there would be a site that was easy to find and understand that listed them all so as to facilitate posting that took this into account for you guys. Am I to surmise by the laughter that there is no such list readily accessed?

A convenient list of banned sites?

I didn't know you guys couldn't get blogspot either. Is there a convenient list of banned sites somewhere [that's kept up to date]?

Unfortunately we can't get blogspot in China (not least because I have an old blog there) - but I enjoyed your reports on this site. If you got enthusiastic for China dwellers you can put your stuff on wordpress or yahoo for example.

RJ, wo wanquan tongyi. That was my favourite line also.

Xiaoliang

I also love how nicely "quelle horreur" sits next to the French looking get up in his avatar.

This P guy I can relate to. "Quite the character" is always a good thing in my books.

You didn't happen to snap any pics of:

"snippets of romantic English "poetry", usually lyrics they've assumedly grabbed from the Internet, hilariously misspelled and delightfully sappy"

...did you?

"It's always weird meeting internet people for the first time"

..I'd be interested to hear more.

"if you're made up of the people you meet, I'm made up right now of a bunch of people I could barely communicate with"

..lol. I love these observations of yours.

"My keenness to further my language ability is certainly redoubled"

...great to hear. Jiayou mate.

oh, and thanks for the link. I'm keen to go check that out. :)

Having been to all the cities you write about, and ridden the same trains, I have to say xiao liang, that you did a good job of capturing the essence of each place, emotional and physical. but the line that sums it up best I think was:

"something about my view on the world has changed and I'm not yet sure what that is".

This, with you I also share, and it always makes traveling, especially to Asia, so worth it. There is no feeling that can compare to that first trip and the way it makes you wonder how you ever could have not known these things before. How there was never any urgency to correct this, and how now you know, there should have been.

."..but if you're made up of the people you meet, I'm made up right now of a bunch of people I could barely communicate with".

It will be interesting to continue on your Chinese language journey and learn to communicate with these people, and then realize that you're really the same people. Or at least have the same wants, desires, aspirations, if not methods.

Oh, the one at Madame tussauds? Hehe, no, there was a little queue and we wanted to see the view :-)

Did you take a picture with the wax figurine of Bruce Lee at the top of the Peak? :D He was surprisingly short. For some reason in my head, being good at martial arts equates with being tall.

"Of course I'd only ever been there digitally, but that was one hell of a geeky thrill."

cool. that must have felt pretty surreal.

"You know, just in case you wanted a memento of something that never happened."

..hehe, yeah, exactly

Yeah - I've been here in Asia (living in Hong Kong) since September. The place where I live is well outside the city proper and where I shop, everyone is Asian. Whenever I see another white face in that crowd, I feel this odd camaraderie. But say hello to them? Why - because we're both white? I think I'd weird them out. :) I just visited Stanley (tourist central!) and there were white people everywhere...which made me feel strangely uncomfortable. I think I feel rather Asian in my head now. Bizarre...

I do like running into Americans though when I'm wandering around...they're the ones who smile and say hello as you walk past each other. I miss that.

Touche!

Yea, I agree actually, that's why I said "Of course, there's absolutely no reason to pay special attention to someone else just because their skin is the same colour as yours, and on consideration ignoring them is a far more normal reaction, "

So while I there may be an aspect of blatant ignoring on their part, I think there was also a heavy aspect of my consciousness of my difference, and the conjoined feeling of similarity with a total stranger because of their skin colour. It was definitely a strange feeling, and I'd be interested how other people feel about it - I come from such a multicultural society that it's literally never been of note before.

you've got dirt on your nose, by the way. Did you know? Just there....

"none of the few white faces we passed would even look at me. It's almost like they didn't want the special feeling of being the foreign face to be interrupted by another "special" person, so it was easier to ignore it!"

...very interesting observation. I think John had an interesting blog post on sinosplice somewhere that may have touched on this [or came close to touching on it...possibly not...but I think there is one commenting on different laowai's]. Anyway, I'm wondering how different the interaction with other white faces was to back home in England? ...whether it's possible it was more a matter of being a contrast to being started at by the Chinese due to your laowainess, and in fact not that different to back home. Just a postulation..you were there and I wasn't..but I'd be interested to hear your reflections on that now that you're back home. :)

Possibilities:

1) They get stared at more

2) They've never been stared at before, so it is more unusual

3) They are more sensitive and whiny

4) They don't whine more, you just talk to more white people :-p

casual, statistically insignificant observation: caucasians seem more likely to comment on being stared at, or being different from the Chinese, than other ethnic groups. Why?

呵呵，亲爱的，别踩我

好的，我别踩牌子，可是我猜我可以踩草地上，采花，吃菜，什么的

Oh, and this one from the expo:

"polite language and no noising"

Oh, and this was my other favourite engrish sign :)

"Emergency Shelfter"

Hmn, I didn't get the chinese of the one at the tombs...

But the grass one:

"Dear! Do not trample!"

hehe, how sweet...do you remember the Chinese? Did you get any photos of such signs? [Also the one near the tombs ]

"a little disappointed I didn't get to see someone walking their bird."

..lol, very good mate. Nicely dropped in there. Tingshuo it's the early bird catches the bird.

*spontaneously throws up*

Ohhh...I think I'm with you on eating crabs. Of all the things my friends bought for me to try (including bug gelatin and pig's blood), surprisingly it was the WHOLE CRAB that was the hardest to eat. I mean, she was just staring at me and I had to rip her little legs off...and then rip her body in half and eat some of her insides. Gah. :P I did it...but it took me until after dinner was well over and the guys were playing their dice drinking game. My punishment whenever I lost was to work on finishing my crab.

Why don't you just go ahead and put it in the lesson suggestion thread? I would agree, "throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em like you just don't care" would be a helpful phrase to learn in Chinese :-) Along with other stretching vocabulary, which we could definitely use.

I'm so gutted I didn't get to do this! I'd love it! :-)

I'll second that. Sounds like fun, and also something interesting in that you probably wouldn't strike it in the west [I mean of course individuals are encouraged to do it for long haul flights , but I've not struck it being done as a group thing on the plane..and once again it's that whole group mentality that China has and the west doesn't ..at least not to the degree the Chinese do]. More cultural exploration, hehe.

Hey, I don't want to push, but I'm thinking that this routine would be a great lesson, at the Intermediate level. Some body-part-related vocab, action dialogue, something about the philosophy, bit of culture.

I didn't know that China Southern does the exercises too. There was a period where I was flying to Shenzhen from Lanzhou, and the airline (I think it was Shanghai Airlines, or Hainan Airlines) would invite everyone to do arm raises, hand shaking, hand twirling and various arm stretching execises above your head. A flight attendant would be in the front of the airplane in the aisle, and would get on the intercom to lead about 10 minutes of this. All for a 3+ hour flight. I never did it, because I didn't understand 1 word the flight attendant said, and as an frequent-flying American business traveler, this type of activity is SIMPLY NOT DONE! :-)

Australians are not into singing together, except in Qantas advertisements.

Or exercising together, well definitely not like in China.

There was a documentary not too long ago that had (an Australian?) visiting China and on the bus he was expected to sing, and he sang the Chinese national anthem and of course everyone joined in .. or did I dream all that. I remember thinking.. you have just managed a couple of 'ni hao's in two hours of television and suddenly you're singing the Chinese national anthem!?

yeah, I'd love to do that. I also love those movies you see where everyone is singing in the bus. I'd love to join in something like that. Such a shame but you'd just never see that here, and if you tried to start it up everyone would think you're a nutter, hehe. I guess you could do it with a group of mates, but I've never seen it done with strangers.

China Southern does the group exercises, I luv em. After the initial embarrassment I always join in. I think they are great on several counts:

- for health reasons this kind of exercise makes flying safer

- you feel great afterwards

- some of them are kind of funny, quite different to exercises we would do in the West

- the community side of it is very cool (practically every single person joins in, it is a kind of leveller, and makes you feel good, simply because you are doing something together)

- it takes your mind off the landing. :)

"Shanghai airlines...group exercises in your seat."

...really? Do they just do domestic flights and are these group exercises even on short haul flights? Pray tell all.

"I always knew crabs were evil"

..hehe, where's our old mate, mickeytoon ? I think he'd have something to say about that!

China Eastern I think... at least for one of the flights.

I'm with you on the spitting. The mumbling I was doing in my head about it is now threating to be heard by others as I whisper it. I accidently learned the Chinese equivalent of No F------ Way, and i'm in danger of saying that out loud.

I guess you weren't flying Shanghai airlines, otherwise we'd be hearing about you doing the group exercises in your seat. What airlines were you flying inside China?

Respect for the dead for sure. It's weird, because photos were only banned at the outer chamber, which was his statue. The inner chamber with the actual sarcophagus was a photo-frenzy.

"warnings in several languages to please not take photos AND security guards"

..do you reckon this is some sort of security concern, a respect for the dead thing, or something else?

"Danger" and "Slightly Threatening"...hahaha

@zhenlijiang I have literally no idea! Does anyone?!

@paulinurus Wait until you see how many bags we came back with :-p

Yes, I crossed the streets of course! And it was fine, at least, no-one ran me over. I particularly liked the pedestrian crossings, with the little traffic policemen blowing their whistles like it was the end of the world, and everyone blatantly ignoring them.

Wife and I went with two pieces of luggage and came back with four. Thank goodness luggage allowance for NA is two pieces x 23kg (50 lb) for each passenger.

p.s did you cross the streets in the cities? How was it?

Hey what's a "model of morality"? You get certified as one and issued an ID?

Where do I say that beauty is just an emotional response?

Hi Zhen_lijiang

There have been countless attempts to systematize beauty down the ages (eg. the Golden Mean) so it is not obvious that beauty is just an emotional response.

'The Western perception of beauty' - I think I was still talking about an emotional response here, tempered perhaps by some education about what is beautiful and what is not. We can't avoid socialization, including concepts of beauty - the media tells us every day what is beautiful and what is not. It sinks in.

Zhen,

He,he... interesting that I've had observations similar to yours, only difference being you've made it known. I guess I should've when a grandmother who posted her impression of the traffic in China and that she felt unsafe to bring her grand daughter along was challenged with statistcs thrown at her and the post ended with 'hope I've helped'.

Look at the response to Evelyne

Bodawei, you suggest, that perceptions of beauty are mainly emotional ... uh OK. Well I see that is the one sentence I should not have edited out from my long comment, so obvious I thought it was (I'm don't want to argue here about this obviousness. But part of the problem is a statement like The Western perception of beauty is challenged in China, no question. only raises all those questions I had, I have no idea where something like that comes from.). How would one's perception of beauty not be emotional, I had said.

Again, Xiao Liang's writing a diary here, not an essay. Yes maybe you got carried away.

I never thought you were defending ugliness, don't know where you get that from. I read your comment and got the impression you were questioning another's perception of beautiful/ugly, and wondered what authority of that you are. I didn't of course realize that you were asking (what I thought were strange) questions as a student.

Obviously I misunderstood your questions, and apologize for subjecting you and this thread to a long response that missed your point. Of course I will be even more careful in the future. Could happen again though.

I don't know how to make myself shorter. I always do try to be briefer.

And I should say, I didn't get anything negative from your post at all! Actually I really appreciate how you've clearly read my (largely nonsensical!) stuff and found it interesting enough to comment on!

I know that building sites can be beautiful. For example, here's a picture of an insane one we found in Hong Kong, it had well over 100 cranes just on one site:

The Nanjing building sites were just wall-to-wall dust though. Not great.

Hi Zhenlijiang

Starting this again - the site is doing that old trick of deleting your post as you write. Try to be shorter. I am not being in any way critical of xial_liang's impressions - I suggest that perceptions of beauty are mainly emotional (I guess that could be taken as analytical). I get a bit carried away with my interests - I try to be a student of such things. (I have collected a few books in recent times on the 'image of the city' to borrow a phrase from one of the writers.) And I have my own views but I thought I was keeping them to myself. I wasn't defending ugliness in the Chinese city (although I do happen to enjoy Nanjing.)

Building sites - I like them; everything can have its own beauty. I am taking lots of photos of the latest campus that I teach in. Fascinating how quickly China does its 'landscaping' - they believe in instant trees, and everything is done in large volume and scale.

Mmm Bodawei, XiaoLiang would probably prefer that I didn't--but really. He should give you his analysis for just plain ugly in many many ways? You're inviting him to reflect a bit and be more specific about which parts he found ugly and that's all right I guess, particularly if you're his teacher. But he has already qualified, limited the application of "ugly". Was it not enough for you? And yes he's publishing it here, but remember, this impression he had of a city he's visiting for the first time is an entry in a traveler's diary.

You often seem to just shoot down impressions--those don't agree with you--when they're voiced by most other people. I disagree with being so dismissive of impressions. And this time it isn't about data or the facts. Impressions are revealing and significant. Each one we have adds to our ever-changing perspective on ourselves and on the rest of the world. Sharing those, and jumping to conclusions or wildly spreading negative pictures of China is entirely different.

I know what I think of as ugliness when I see it, and many many parts of Japan, even in my hometown, are plain ugly. Stating that does not make me or anyone else anti-Japan, but I am critical of bad (absent) urban planning and lack of initiatives that could reduce ugliness and make people living in this city happier, because that ugliness is all our doing, mostly manifestations of selfishness and greed, lack of will, lack of sense of community. If and when I find anything outside of Japan that doesn't please my sense of beauty that does not mean I am looking down on that country or the culture there, though I may be critical in the same way I would be in Japan. When I visited Prague I found parts of it beautiful, parts of it just plain ugly. I think I can see why the ugliness that I saw happened. I don't look down on the Czech people for it. I am not a Westerner. It's possible my (Japanese) perception of beauty has been American(?)-informed to some extent. I do not think the Czech Republic--or Japan, or the U.S., or China--challenges it.

You don't have to agree with someone on what is beautiful/ugly, but why should they be required to rationalize their perception for you, or apologize if it is indeed an emotional response? My perception of beauty is personal to me. Isn't yours personal to you?

You don't want to tell us how to think here do you?

You think building sites are pretty? :-) There are big areas of Nanjing right now where you literally can't see anything but building sites.

No, we didn't go through the tunnel - didn't have enough time in Shanghai. (And I LOVE bladerunner...)

That 'wood' - that's the mattress. :)

It's always fun watching a foreigner sit on a Chinese bed for the first time, specially if they're tired and 'collapse' on to the bed, and then spring up saying 'my God - there's no mattress!' xiao_liang, there was a lesson on this not too long ago wasn't there? Also in Summer people sometimes lay a kind of bamboo mat on the bed to sleep on (makes it cooler but even harder).

Nanjing is 'plain ugly in many ways' - I take it from your next comment that you think this is because of the many building sites. The Western perception of beauty is challenged in China, no question. I wonder if the perception is largely emotional? I mean if you don't like something, or if you find it alien (vastly different to home) it is likely to come out as a perception of ugliness. (You mentioned Bladerunner.) Actually, in Shanghai did you happen to go/ride in the 'chamber of horrors' that goes under the Huangpu River?

Anyway, thanks again for your diary - excellent stuff.

And you don't study Chinese in order to come back to China, you come back to China in order to learn Chinese. Really, time in the country is like an accelerated course (you realise when you get home, on reflection.)

No mattress? Stop whining, you're in China with C!! :-)

Your description of seeing C's granddad's tomb was cool. It's another reminder to me that it would be helpful if we had a cpod lesson on funerals. Yes there was a tomb sweeping day lesson, but I do mean a lesson on (Chinese) funerals.

She probably doesn't...

actually, I thought that she might have said that she didn't want pix of her on websites! I'd better be more careful of what I ask for :-)

Naturally I have about a million :-p Just not in Cpod, where she was mostly hiding, or taking the pictures...

But since you ask ;-) Here's one from Nanjing at the top of the Sun Yat Sen memorial:

No photos of C anywhere?

You took the bullet train! I'm so jealous! I bought my ticket from Hangzhou to Beijing the day before I wanted to leave (big mistake). So I had two choices, buy the high-speed ticket for over 800RMB (I may be western, but I am also still in graduate school and cheap) or take the slow hard seat for about 120RMB. Did I mention it left at 11pm and didn't arrive until after 2pm the next day? An adventure, but exhausting!

Ha ha - they totally air that soap opera here in Hong Kong on CCTV1. The first time I saw it, I thought I had to be misunderstanding - but no, it really is a soap opera about Mao's son.

Nice photos, thanks xiao_liang

Cool, thanks heaps for the photos mate. :)

And here's the photos from the chinesepod visit as promised! Everyone spectacularly manages to blink or be out of focus in every photo...

Left to right Rob, Sarah, Me

Wanted for coughing: Liliana. $1,000,000 reward

LTR: Rob, Catherine, Sarah, Me, Jason

Obligatory photo with mics covering faces...

David gives the thumbs up

Jason and John B

Seriously, it's awful. You'll regret it!

i've never even heard of the "kungfu" restaurant chain. I guess i'm not as worldly as I thought.

""kungfu", the Bruce lee branded fast food chain which is perplexingly popular"

...perplexingly ? I'd have to try it at least once, hehe [and I'm guessing I'm not alone..at least not this time, hehe]. The power of good marketing over the quality of the product. Another useful tidbit amongst the fine entertainment in your posts. I'll be sure to look out for it when I one day get there.

Hah, possibly! Perhaps it's just because it has to be crushed into a more compact space. There are some small parts of Hong Kong that are just like London, but the rest of it not at all. The weirdest thing is how thin the skyscrapers are...

hey xiao_liang

Thanks for your diary - it's been great; sounds such fun. Come again!

Just listened to your cameo appearance at ChinesePod - that was cool too. Difficulty finding something is part of China; I'm glad ChinesePod is authentic in this respect. PS: I bet that girlfriend of yours has a lot to say off-air!

On city comparisons - I have the same feeling about HK and Shanghai - SH is more like HK than other Chinese cities. The pace, the volume of commerce, the extent of foreign influence - but there are also differences. HK is so orderly by comparison - the British influence?

Nah, I grew up in London, they're very different cities to my mind. Just the sheer number of skyscrapers is different, not to mention the style of buildings, the... everything! Heh. I thought Hong Kong was quite similar to Shanghai though. Just less spread out.

Mind you, I haven't been to Beijing...

no one bothers to tell you that you don't have to queue for your home country pavillion? Interesting.

Actually, I thought Shanghai was London with tall buildings but no Queen. Beijing is more Manhattan without ethnic neighborhoods.

yeah I've heard of those cages and thought it might be something along those lines. I guess they haven't heard of our orangina then.

The problem is that most of the people on QQ are bored, or NEETs, or scammers/virus people. When I signed up a couple of years ago, it added you to the search thing, so you got hundreds of people genuinely interested in talking to you, but I signed up again recently, and didn't get added to the search engine, so I got no friend requests at all, apart from someone trying to send me a virus...

With the taxis, apparently in GZ there was a problem a few years ago where a lot of taxi drivers got attacked. So now there are steel cages in every taxi protecting them, and supposedly only women and children allowed in the front...

"ram his steel digits into my shoulders with gay abandon"

..hehe

"don't use qq, the chinese msn, due to it being filled with nutters"

..really? what kind? [..or do you just mean your plagued with requests for language exchange or something?]

"taxi on the way home ("only women and children allowed in the front!" "

..I wonder if it's because they feel more threatened by a male in the front. Maybe they're scarred by bodawei's runner , hehe :)

Travel is surreal. You'll be in Birmingham, and you'll have the memories of HK, Shanghai, and it will be like you never left England. Or maybe that's just me.

Even worse, I'm back home in England! Just said goodbye to her and drove 3 hours home to birmingham. Not quite sure how I feel right now (apart from hungry with an empty fridge). Although I did write an entry on the plane so you can probably read that in a bit!

At this point, you're waxing nostalgic about the entire trip on good ol Air New Zealand flight 39. What do you miss? What surprised you? What was what you expected? Is this what you thought adulthood would be?

I often feel that way when I see artists selling things like that. As someone who likes to paint (badly), it always gives me a strange feeling when I see someone so much more talented than me selling their work for tuppence. On the one hand they're making a living out of their work, which is great, on the other hand, they're selling something beautiful for so little...

'man painting on the inside of glass bottles, they are all for sale!'

This work is highly skilled yet you see these people working as lowly hawkers. I was with someone once watching a guy work on the inside of a bottle - she asked how much, the guy replied and someone in the crowd made a joke about foreigner prices. The artist replied 'she can afford it'. My friend launched an onslaught, lecturing him loudly about over-charging foreigners who work in the country (dragged a crowd). The mood turned and someone pushed the artist in the chest. I felt kind of sorry for him in the end.

（＾◇＾）

funny followed by a touching finish. I think C is also lucky to have snagged a snag. Don't change :)

Thanks Cinnamonfern!

hehe, I love the ending ..the way you want to immerse yourself in a real life role playing fantasy. Keep that spirit. Jiayou. :)

thanks also for sharing and for your vivid descriptions which really helps us imagine being there..love it

ps you must tell us if you meet any Big Trouble in Little China characters/situations.

That's the right place Jen! Her 爷爷 and 奶奶 live there.

Well sort of! I went to meet a friend of mine who lives in Guangzhou, and along the way I met her parents - nothing as serious or formal as xiao liang though!

If I knew how to post pictures, I would include lots of backstreets and wedding parties ....

Of course! The multiple bridal parties and photographers could only have been 沙面岛! It's one of my absolute favorite places in Guangzhou. A few years ago, the old European buildings were in a serious state of disrepair but it seems they've been making more efforts to preserve them of late.

It was indeed the White Swan! Good detective work! See above for language answer :)

so mike, you mean you went with your girlfriend to China to visit her parents?

"Vivid" is just the right word, bodawei! I agree completely.

That does sound like something I would enjoy. My problem was of course about me lacking cultural knowledge that would have guided what to say, to better encourage the visiting kids in an unfamiliar setting. I'd been clutching my electronic dictionary in both hands the whole time, frantically searching for words I thought might be the key to open doors, but that wasn't enough, not surprisingly.

Like jen_not-jenny I am reminded of my first (and second) trip to China - the thing is it will never be this vivid (I nearly said 'good' but that is not quite what I'm after) again, and you will remember things from this trip for ever. Love your 'diary' - and your new family (definitely in marriage preparation phase) reminds me of experiences I have with one family (now part of the extended family). The photo obsession. The 16 year old forced to 'practice their English' going red. Striding into galleries marked not open. It's a great time, enjoy it, and thanks for sharing your excitement with us.

@pretzellogic Hah, I wish! Sadly I'm just a humble manager. Weddings, houses, there are a lot of financial expectations coming up I think!

@zhenlijiang That's really interesting. You'd have liked this exhibition I think. There were four parts for the four stages of life, and some photos and videos of the kids doing the work. It was the brainchild of a chinese artist, so she was there coaching them through it, although I don't know if she had the same problems as you...

@toianw All the family are native mandarin speakers. They are not originally from Guangzhou so they all speak mandarin as their first language, although they can speak cantonese. I hear a mixture about 50/50 of mandarin/cantonese in guanghou - C speaks to all the shop assistants and cab drivers in cantonese as first choice. With her childhood friend from the city she switches randomly between the two languages, which is mildly confusing...

Thanks for the nice words!

oh mate, I can't tell you how enjoyable this was to read. I love your humourous observations. Definitely keep 'em coming and thankyou :)

It's nice to read these detailed, entertaining accounts of your first trip to China, xiao_liang! Reminds me of my first days in the country...thanks for sharing!

Hi xiao_liang

Thanks for sharing. Keep 'em coming - it's a great read. A quick question if you don't mind. Are your girlfriend's family native mandarin speakers? If not presumably they are speaking mandarin with you. Can they all speak mandarin or is there a noticeable difference in ability between different ages? How much mandarin do you here out and about in Guanzhou? Sorry, that was more than one question. Thanks again for sharing your experiences with us.

Sorry my mistake, that wasn't 10 kids from Hangzhou in shop class. It was 6 from Hangzhou and I think 4 from Seoul. So one or two Chinese and one Korean visitor per group. The Korean kids had their own interpreter and I didn't really see if they were having a similarly hard time getting started.

Can't wait to see the photos, because I'm already seeing all you describe and just want to see how wildly off I am.

Dad has declared to everyone that I understand 30% and can speak 20% of Chinese--can I get an evaluation like that? Able to speak 20% of Chinese--Wow.

About creativity, that's what you're "told"? Huh interesting. I don't think any kind of education system can kill creativity in people. We're human, we're creative. I think what can happen is, we can raise (accustom) our kids to be comfortable with acting spontaneously, to be comfortable expressing themselves without the assurance of always knowing exactly what to expect.

I did wonder, through my very limited experience around 4th-6th grade kids on a 3-day exchange in Tokyo--it seemed all but one of the 10 kids from Hangzhou I was helping in shop class (the kids were each making their own little jigsaw puzzle) were just stumped when told, "you can design your puzzle however you like, draw or write anything you like". Maybe it was my terrible Chinese? But the one boy did start working pretty quickly so it couldn't have been just that. I went around each table several times and assured (anything at all!) and encouraged (whatever you come up with will be great!) and asked (what do you like? how about your favorite hanzi or word? you could design your name maybe) and prodded over and over again, with the Japanese kids also helping, but most of the Chinese kids simply couldn't start. They looked vexed, some appealed to me "I don't know what to draw!", held pencil in hand but didn't seem to know what they could possibly do with it. I don't know what I ought to have done, said, to make them comfortable but it seemed to me that at least some of them had trouble with not getting what outcome was expected of them that they could work toward. The "anything at all you feel like" wasn't a good prompt for them. In the end the kids did draw pictures, designed their little puzzles. But it took a loooooong time for them to start, so they had to rush through using the cutting machines and all, and a few were late leaving for lunch. I was totally unprepared for kids having such a hard time getting started on drawing anything they liked. I didn't think their creativity was stifled. I suppose they could have been a little self-conscious, they were visitors (along with the visiting kids from Korea) and the host kids were watching (friendly though of course, and really helpful). I wondered if it was specifically the lack of restriction that they weren't too used to, or something else.

but that's ok, because you're an investment banker for Goldman Sachs! 500 guests, and you will have to buy gifts, and fly back to China from London. Well, you have another reason to come to China! Go to Beijing this time. See creativity in action at the 798 art zone.

dude, you are going to have an extremely expensive Chinese wedding....

maybe the random woman was trying to push for a no child policy

you're right, but I'm not that sophisticated to find the joke here either....

been there, done that!

A gift horse? There's a joke in there somewhere but Im not touching it. One hotel I stayed in had condoms in the bathroom. At first I thought they were free but I soon realized that they were actually part of the mini bar and not cheap. I have never seen this a second time.

Hehe, indeed. Although of course at her parents' house we're in seperate bedrooms... (I'm 33!) :-)

so you got condoms for free? Never look a gift horse in the mouth! Sounds like you're having fun so far.

Yea, it was fun to finally meet people in person, if you see what I mean! Thanks for the nice welcome folks. I fear the interview might be unpublishable, as I'm kind of high-pitched when excited, and might have blown the microphones :-p

yay, so he will be on N&F. That I look forward to. :)

sue3 - I've been to the Vienna Cafe just once! Sat on a cozy little corner table with a friend and a coffee on a rainy saturday afternoon. It was so nice, but I didn't try the cake... there's my excuse to go back! :-)

Hi suxioya - but you HAVE been to the Vienna Cafe in Shanghai I hope ? nice with homemade cakes !

Your classic Chinese birthday cake actually works well for me - there is so much cream and fruit on top of the sponge that I can avoid any of the gluten in the cake and still get a feed! :)

Oh, that's what you mean. Well, that's up here too. But I like that! very busy. But you can get the non-busy cake as well.

The birthday cakes in Shanghai usually compose of very light sponge, lots and lots of whipped cream, and surprise fruits. Many times I have be horrified to find soggy cherry bits hidden within the sponge layers. It's all very artificial in taste and appearance. Definitely overdecorated.

I guess my main problm, though, is that they just don't resemble birthday cakes as I know them! Aside from homemade cakes, I miss Marks & Spencers' caterpillar cake from the UK :-)

"Chinese birthday cakes are quite strange anyway."

Well, that might be a Shanghai thing :-)..... most of the birthday cakes I've seen in Beijing have been pretty mundane, or at least as overdecorated as i've seen elsewhere. Definitely something i'd see in the US. But I have seen a 7 story wedding cake in a bakery here that didn't quite work for me.

Chinese birthday cakes are quite strange anyway. I'd stick with the noodles, they are very important!

Musical??

Noodles?

Cake wouldn't have travelled very well in my suitcase! I bought her some tickets to a musical she wanted to see in London, and some earrings and some other stuff. Thanks for the noodles reminder!

there's a Dear Amber on Birthdays which discusses gifts, eating noodles [to signify longevity] deng deng

xiao_liang

Just saw this, maybe too late for you.

You can try wordpress. or yahoo also works in the mainland. And QQ.

I meant no offense. I was asking because it appears that a phenomenon I experienced in China quite a few times and thought was nationwide is casually starting to look like just a local phenomenon.

NOooo. They're not drinkers. The worst we had was sharing a glass of beer at dinner! (My girlfriend just read that and said "No! My family are well educated and civilised!")

I have no good suggestions to give you in this arena; my access to my blog was blocked. Wherever website jenny zhu's blog is being hosted at is probably a good starting point.

I am curious. Have the male members of the family been inviting you to drink liquor? And if so, have you imbibed? and if so, what were the results?

I suppose you're right. In some distant future, if you actually have to get yourself around China by yourself, you'll be fluent by then.

Hehe, for sure! But having a personal translator is just so convenient sometimes :-p

I understand. Aside from the beggers, I usually get art students trying to sell me the amateur reproductions of relatively unknown works. Sadly, this worked on me the first time it happened, thinking that they were earnest art students. The good news for you is that I've only experienced this art student "thing" on wangfujing in Beijing (good because you're not coming to Beijing to experience this). The bad news is that there are other ways to separate you from your money.

And if you had to get yourself around instead of relying on girlfriend/family members, you'd be worshipping at cpod's taxi lessons :-)

Family's computer. Dad gets up for work and leaves at 8, and we don't want to waste the day :-p

You know, chinesepod has been so useful. Little phrases you've heard in lessons just pop into your head, like when a shop assistant today told me to 试一下 which was in a recent Qing Wen.

Although, I wandered around Guangzhou for a couple of hours on my own today, and no-one tried to sell me tea for an outrageous price. Highly disappointing ;-)

Are you going to the local starbucks with your laptop to check in with us mere mortals? Or are you logging into cpod with the relative's computer at their home? I realize that you do not want to be a late sleeper when visiting others, but at the same time, 9am seems early when you are on vacation. (yes, you are up at 5 or 6am during the workweek, but this is not the workweek).

Turns out I was wrong, it was just the next-door eatery. Oh well, it makes a nice story :-p

Last night's dinner with the relatives went well! Totally overloaded with unbelievable amounts of gifts, and her auntie made a speech to the entire table where she listed the reasons why I'm apparently brilliant. Not sure how I managed to persuade them of this, but definitely can't complain...

Have a great trip, and looking forward to read your impressions! By the way, do try and cross the streets in the city. If the streets of Guangzhou are like those in Hangzhou, you're in for a lot of fun.

haha, I didn't eat there, just saw it. The first food we had was a huuuuge seafood restaurant with a pet crocodile, and every type of fish you could think of swimming in tanks for you to pick out.

So. Much. Food. Bodawei is wise.

Full reports at some later date! xx

I was tracking it earlier as well and unlike some other flights didn't seem to show the graphic for some reason but did give the time into the journey and time to go. I missed the touchdown though as I was out. Go get 'em mate. Jiayou !! :)

cool! the first food eaten in China (HK) is American fast food! On to Starbucks!

欢迎你到中国来！；）See ya on Thursday!

MDBG says 汉堡王 Hànbǎowáng

Maybe it is different on the 大陆 dàlù (mainland)?

Welcome to China xiao_liang! We turned down the typhoons just for you (the Chinese Government claims great success in modifying the weather.) Hope the skies are blue and the 粥 zhōu (congee) especially tasty.

Lol, you guys are great :-) arrived safely, everyone in hong kong airport is speaking mandarin! Burger king is called 美心 which I found quite funny. That's it so far!

No, I mean in the little box for United 851 that says "route", you get this:

BAE 5000N 09000W 5500N 09000W YEK 6600N 10000W 7000N 10800W 7400N 12000W OMEKA ORVIT G494 DILSA G494 LURET G495 URILI G495 KU G496 NAREM B161 SULOK G218 MENOR G218 POLHO G218 TMR B458 TZH A596 KM

this tells you the coordinates and locators that the airplane will fly over. For ANZ 38, that stuff isn't provided.

Arrived at gate 10 minutes ago! Hooray

http://zh.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ38/history/20101022/2005Z/EGLL/VHHH

You don't get the graphic you mean? Maybe not. It looked like it started to show us, from Heathrow. It was giving updated data at least (Taxiing. pushed away from gate 5 minutes ago). It was saying how many miles flown, how many more to go at least into the first 500+ miles. And telling us the time left in the journey, but I didn't watch the whole flight haha, so don't know if the whole flight was tracked well or not.

Anyway they arrived safely.

Post update well noted! So we're seeing you this afternoon? Do not worry, though; if plans change again we will totally understand... :-)

Right! Sarah please see above reply! Thanks ZLJ!

Hey you should reply to Sarah (well I suppose you're not just contacting CPod via this thread) not yourself, this comment is buried. Latest they heard is you're gutted about not getting to go.

Aaaand plans change again. (Again!). We ARE now coming after all. This family is deeply confusing! lol

Ah, I may have spoken too soon. We are being forced to go to the expo after all on Thursday (and I mean forced!), and there is no way for me to get out of it without causing offense. It may have to be next time, or a quick visit on Friday when no-one is in your office. Gutted :-(

Ah, wonderful news! Hope to see you next week, then :-)

Thanks Sarah!

I think I will get a chance - see the update above! Hopefully be seeing you Thursday afternoon! I'll try and bring a taste of England with me :)

http://zh.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ38/history/20101022/2005Z/EGLL/VHHH

Dear lord above I do not want to go.

sorry mate, that should have been:

hehe, dangran wo kaiwanxiao, keshi , buhaoyisi, "huzi shexiangtou" zhende shi hushuo. wo zhidao, wo yinggai guahuzi.

Jiayou pengyou, wo xiwang ni xingfu. wanr dianr ba.

[huzi shexiangtou= mo cam]

... beard???

呵呵，当然我开玩笑，可是，不好意思，“胡子摄像头”真的是胡说。我知道我应该刮胡子。。。

加油朋友，我希望你幸福，玩儿点儿吧

Wow, $18 to see a movie! One thing I don't understand about Japan is why generally things are SO EXPENSIVE compared to other countries in Asia. I saw mangoes selling for US$50 each, water melons $15 each, apples $5 each, cantelopes $18. And of course, beef prices are out of this world. Well OK Okinawa is an island, but still...such prices are killers! How do Japanese people afford to buy food?

OK I looked it up. It's 3,000 JPY so US$30 (at date this rate is totally unreal of course, but I'm going by US$1 = 100 JPY because that's more normal) for a single-entry tourist visa for us, 30 or 90 days. And Japanese nationals can stay up to 15 days without any visa. I left on the 15th day. It's funny how at the end of the application form they have an item worded "You can pay extra and get your visa in fewer days if you like. Would you like?"--not exactly as so, but close. It's another 3,000 JPY if you want the 加急. Clever pricing, always business-minded. I see agents now offering to take care of the visa for US$50 or so. So of course the 8,000 JPY is a ripoff, but Japanese tend to part more easily with their money if they think they're buying a bit of security, comfort, hassle-freeness, peace of mind. A generalization of course, and experienced travelers will do so less. The embassy in Tokyo is close enough for me to do it myself, but just far enough to be mafan on a tight schedule, and apparently I have to show up (or have someone go) to pick up the visa. Two trips to the embassy will set me back about US$20 anyway. I might as well have an agent do it for me at US$50.

I totally forgot you travel much further to get to China than we do. So of course we pay much less for airfare. Ignoring all the LCC's (low-cost carriers) like 春秋航空 starting service in regional cities here, an OK deal for us on say China Eastern would be about US$750 I think, including all the fuel and airport use fees, agent fees. When I traveled Northwest happened to be doing a 促销 and my airfare came to US$430 (ticket price US$300). Very good deal.

Again, I have a feeling the intent in waiving the visa for short visits by Japanese was to encourage more tourist travel, esp by older travelers who would be less likely to stay at hostels and use public transport, perhaps more likely to hire interpreters, hire cars, go on extra guided tours, spend more money. And weekend travelers who would also often be repeaters. Seoul is a very popular destination for that esp among women. Cities like SH should also be, since it's only a 3-hour flight for us.

But yes, I would think the Chinese look at how much it costs to visit from Australia. I think they look at everything. Isn't that what pricing is about--guessing correctly if and how much a certain customer would be willing to pay for different things?

We have ladies days etc, but I wish we had different prices for different films! How come 国产的 costs just as much as 进口的 (I don't think our film industry is producing much good stuff now)? It's so expensive, a regular ticket is US$18. I'm kind of serious about films though, still will only see them at theaters (very discriminately). A movie worth seeing is worth spending US$18 to me, and the communal experience, the publicness, is so important to me too. Having said that I do try to go on the US$10 days.

* sorry for spamming up your thread XiaoLiang *

It is US$40 for a 3 month tourist visa now (recently increased from US$30.) I am working on US$1 = A$1.

I thought about your point about pricing - 'so friendly a visa fee wouldn't keep you from going'. The price always helps and the A$ has been appreciating against the RMB recently, so trips to China are cheaper than they were from this point of view, but there are other factors (see Viva Macau below).

I do think that China has some of the cleverest pricing generally in my experience; I guess a long continuous culture helps that kind of thing evolve. Example: cinema prices vary with the film and the session. In Australia we have a little differential pricing but not much.

I wonder if the Chinese look at how much it costs for an Australian to visit - despite the appreciating A$ travel has got more expensive since Viva Macau ceased trading, so the visa fee is still a fairly insignificant add-on. It is not going to stop you coming. The cheapest return air ticket is about US$1000 these days. Only a couple of years ago our daughter travelled for just half that price.

Would I lie to you Bodawei? Despite the way China has chosen to keep Japan as a pet enemy for the past few decades I'm telling you, there is sweet 友好 flowing back and forth between the two countries (the "PR people" in Beijing think 友好 is something you get to twist off though, whenever, like tap water--and I know, they do it to other countries too, not just us). Funny ways indeed. OK sorry. Maybe you have to pay because you're so friendly with them a visa fee wouldn't keep you from going? How expensive is it? I was told I'd be charged 8,000 JPY if I made my last (tourist) visit longer than the 14 days. I think that includes fees for the travel agent to do it, the actual visa shouldn't cost that much. And I forget for how long it was good. Maybe they intended to encourage more travel to China from Japan because (I don't know anything here, just guessing) Japanese travelers generally tend to be timid = spend more money on hotels and restaurants and touristy activities than be economical and more adventurous? Japan has only just begun to relax requirements for Chinese visitors. It used to be until recently you couldn't come visit on your own, you had to be part of a tour group, not because Japan and China are not friends but because overstayers → illegal residents were a problem.

Hi zhenlijiang

Wow - is this for real? I did not realise that. We Australians are supposed to be best friends and we have to line up and buy an expensive visa to get over the border. (We can go into HK however for I think 3 months.)

Didn't he show us a picture of his somewhere?

Japanese need visas for visits longer than 14 days I think it was.

I suppose it's too late at this point, but I hope he realizes that he needs a visa to enter China....or maybe that's just Americans...

xiaoliang de naozhong: you're flight leaves in 7 hours 35 minutes !! ...bie ji bie ji.

Maybe you could secretly wear a mo cam, and have it hooked up wirelessly for some live streaming and have a little earphone, and we poddies could give you live interpretations of the baba's facial expressions/ body language in reaction to you and advise you how to adjust [ and just a reminder, for goodness sake, again, if we say duck..dont think kaoya ] ...with a promise not to wimp lo you of course...

No, no desperation haha. It's more a friendly interest in how you would turn out to meet the girlfriend's parents than wanting to see how you look at work every day. 　(^^)

Hehe! I wear one every day unfortunately! But I won't be wearing it for long, just to say hi to the parents for the first time.

I'm sure I can find a photo somewhere if you're that desperate and can face the horror! ;-)

Didn't know about FlightAware. Nice!

But kinda strange, to know so much about somebody else's life.

Having said that, among other things, I look forward to seeing pictures of XL wearing a suit.

Believe it or not, I'm already packed :-p

As to the flight, you're very welcome - New Zealand airlines NZ0038 at 20.15pm from Heathrow :) I'm gonna imagine I'm Indiana Jones with one of those big red tracking lines during a segue between scenes :) (only, y'know... less cool)

:)

hey, that sounds like fun...watching his flight progress....and if he can't make it to CPod offices for an interview, maybe he could do one via phone from the flight [if the flight has one of those phones....do they all have them now?] and he could talk us through his game plan....

hehe, oh yes, jiushi, they'll no doubt have the upper hand the whole time ..excellent point mate

shouldn't you be packing instead of posting? Isn't it like almost 2pm in the UK on the 19th? don't you have 3 days to go? What flight are you flying; us aviation buffs can watch you progress toward nirvana on www.flightaware.com

I hate you all! ;-)

yes, but then the rest of the family will whip out their flyswatters and gently point out that Chén Lóng showed the right tool to kill flies with in the 2010 remake

yeah, I guess they'll be happy with the ordinary stuff...like how the original karate kid showed us that all western kids have a knack for catching flies with their chopsticks..so flies will naturally be xiaoliang's 负责

lol ;)

nonsense! merely picking up marbles with his plastic (not wood!) chopsticks like the rest of the family will be fine!

really, you can't ask silly questions like "what is this"?.....I'd really be in trouble...I clearly wouldn't be conformist enough. I'd be relishing the opportunity too much to hold back. Aiyou.

"Oh, and at this point, xiao_liang has mastered chopsticks, correct?"

..dangran lo. The expectation will that he'll be able to entertain all with some never seen before tricks with them while regaling them with some heretofore unknown facts about them.

Oh, and as long as xiao_liang doesn't ask silly questions at dinner like "what is this?", he'll be fine.:-)

Oh, and at this point, xiao_liang has mastered chopsticks, correct?

too bad about not bringing the running shoes, but unfortunately, you're probably right. There won't be much time to even get in a 1 mile run, let alone 10 miles (unless you're faster than me, which isn't saying much).

LOL. I love this!

I never have a problem with eating lots, so hopefully we'll live :-p I've already been briefed to say I like the things her dad likes... however grunting 好 is pretty much the limit of my Chinese, so I think we're safe with that...

And I am a runner! But I'm not taking my running shoes :-) I'll be knackered enough walking around 4 massive cities...

Yeah, he does need some defensive strategies.

1. Never, never, never, never, never, (I'm sounding like Toad of Toad Hall) ..never, never, .. say you like something. They won't care much whether you say that you like it; your liking or disliking something is not going to cause a fundamental re-think of Chinese food culture. If you say you like it they will just order more. Never fails. BIG mistake. Just grunt 好 every now and then so they know you are human.

2. Eat the tiniest pieces of everything on offer. Tiny, tiny, tiny. .. Tiny.

3. Claim that you can't drink alcohol for health reasons.

There's nothing in these meals that a good 10-15 mile run doesn't cure. Xiao-liang didn't say he was a runner though.

I think we should all pitch in with some advise on how to deal with all this extra food without losing face. I'd like to start with some behind the mo, and maybe befriending whatever pets they have and slipping it under the table to the pet...at the same time winning over another member of the family

lol, good one mate. So what you're saying is we won't have a xiao liang any more after this.

..so you'll literally blow into the country for a whirlwind tour. I just hope they're not the superstitious type who would blame you for bringing any typhoon damage that may ensue.....

[j/k mate...you'll be fine]

It's more the landing in high winds I'm worried about :-p

As long as you get to Heathrow (?) when you're scheduled to fly, British Airways/Cathay Pacific/Virgin Atlantic etc., is on the hook to figure out what to do with you (or rather, no additional airline ticket cost to you). They either reschedule you at no cost to you, or divert you in route, or you land at HKG. But it's their problem. ( have a fistfull of credit cards just in case!)

Re: typhoon @HK...even if it hits while you're there, nowhere in the world is better prepared to deal with typhoons than Hong Kong. They'll take care of you.

Practice the 不要in a couple of dialects, too...Cantonese hawkers give up much more quickly when they here a bored "mm yiu, mm yiu." Shanghainese is kind of a "vyoh" sound. Not sure about 南京话. I'm sure Jason could help us out though...

I quite want a mao watch... :)

Hey at least its not an ash cloud , and a nice new airport to land in and not that postage stamp they used to use!

I'm told as long as youcan manage 不要 you can even look around without ending up with a mao watch ;-)

Have a great time

Hmmn, we might be flying on her birthday after all now... oh so complicated! Her best friend's birthday is the day before, so we might celebrate the two together... her family apparently just don't do birthdays! I think they're more panicking about what to feed me. Her dad was saying there's a steakhouse near them which is popular, and we had to insist I will eat "normal" food, honest!

Thanks for your kind words zhenlijiang :-) Much appreciated.

Sorry about that. I try not to, but the way Editing messes up your formatting and spacing between words drives me crazy I end up deleting.

Yeah there is funniness (if only it were always only funny) in China about Japanese, and that target for Expo attendance is serious of course. It's so serious you feel sorry for those people who would have been held responsible, should they have come up short (even though that would never happen anyway ...).

Right, of course you have to go to Expo. Maybe you could go to CPod first thing in the morning? It just seems such a shame.

Sure, some families don't make big deals of birthdays. Maybe her parents are too excited, maybe they're running around now like (nutters) too.

Well we shall look forward to hearing about your adventures and how you charmed everybody's socks off. 祝你好运，加油

You keep deleting your post! I already replied to it! :-p

Yes, it's my first time! Quite exciting. The Chinese are so funny about the Japanese I think - I laughed out loud when I heard the ridiculous reason for the free tickets. Maybe it was a joke :-)

Hmn. It's a bit annoying really. I don't really want to visit the expo, but since her dad is going to a special effort to get the tickets, we are honour-bound to do so. Initially he wanted us to fly there on the Thursday, forgetting that was his own daughter's birthday, and the first one she'd spent in China for 10 years! Somehow I think birthdays really aren't a big deal for their family...

Thanks barbs!

This may not be the time or place but if someone mentions 'duck' they may be referring to certain 特殊服务 (see recent lesson 'Doing Business in the Bath House').

na, in that case, zuihao if someone mentions duck, don't presume they're referring to beijing kaoya ....

Actually, he does have a sword apparently... :-p

"assuming that your future baba hasn't taken the shotgun to you? :-)"

..lol. Is it shotguns [or sometimes in the west we also say Elephant guns] in China, or would it be a sword? ...or maybe just bare hands...an old gong fu master, hehe? [ don't be nervous xiao_liang....just trying to clear up some cultural points here]

oh, i c.....

Oops, I meant this lesson:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/meeting-the-girlfriends-parents

Hey, you don't hold back huh? :-)

Well, as per the lesson, apparently if you go to see her parents, it's implicit you're going to marry at some point. Given that we live in different cities right now, that's not going to happen JUST yet (I only got divorced this year! Gimme a break!), but it will at some point in the future.

So no, not on this trip :-p