Chinese or Chinese person?

嗯！！对了！多谢指点！

谢谢你的回帖！我看这种“一个”好像表示强调的意思，比如说“作为一个中国人，我为祖国感到骄傲。”

是的，对于那样的问题肯定是回答“我是中国人”，但是在有的语境里面还是会用上“我是一个中国人的”，bei jing opera 有首曲子就叫“我是一个中国人”。

“我是一个中国人”多用在介绍自己的时候吧！

如果有人问你“你是哪国人？”，你觉得怎么回答最自然？我会回答说，“我是中国人”。

Really? At least, I always thought both "I'm Japanese" and "I'm a Japanese" were correct English, hehe. I really have to thank xiaophil for posting this thread.

Interesting article Changye! Just the questions we're asking here.

I have never heard anyone saying "I am a Japanese"; is that really prevalent in Japanglish?

Sorry, no Chinese IME on this computer, bodawei. I'm afraid that I'll have to reply in English.

I think what you mean is you found another Americanism that you object to, right? Well, where I come from, 'to luck out' and 'to be in luck' are fairly similar (but not 100% the same in tone and useage).

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/luck+out

haha yeah... I even doubt the spelling of my own country when it tells me that, I suppose Firefox is just noob in that respect. I would personally say "he is Chinese", and as already stated, "he is a Chinese" in my mind relates to negative views towards Chinese people.

'lucked out'和'in luck'是一样的意思差不多，对马? 如果是这样，那是比较怪。

"I'm Japanese" is right, so I guess you lucked out 啊啊.

“我是一个中国人” is correct Chinese, so it's understandable that Chinese people tend to say "I'm a Chinese", which might be often seen in English textbooks used in China, perhaps. I guess both "I'm Japanese" and "I'm a Japanese" are equally prevalent in Japanglish, while I would prefer "I'm Japanese" simply because it's shorter.

It seems at least some Chinese are aware of this common error.

It seems at least some Chinese are aware of this common error.

Hi xiaophil

I found the following article.

http://www.for68.com/new/2008%5C7%5Cli327915320147800224072-0.htm

中式英语解析：我是一个中国人

“我是一个中国人。”这是一句很简单的话，来看看你会不会犯中国式英语的错误吧。用英语应该怎么说呢？

【英文对比翻译】

Chinese Style —— I am a Chinese. My Nationality：China

American Style —— I am Chinese. My Nationality：Chinese

【点评】

第一句译文是不地道的，正确的说法应该去掉不定冠词，或者说 I am a Chinese man. 在外国网站上注册时可以看到，选项（不能自己写）里面的国籍就是这么填的。

比如： Country of birth-出生国家，中国学生填'P.R.China'. Nationality-国籍，中国籍学生填 'Chinese'.　因为CHINA只能表明出生地，而CHINESE可以说明你是中国人！

Haha, I bet some 老外 say 我是一个"什么什么国家"人.

Well I am English and "I'm a Chinese" is not right at all any more than "I am an English"! That said I know what it means and I would not have a problem with someone Chinese saying that to me. I think it only becomes wrong if an English speaker uses it the other way... "He is a Chinese" feels offensive some how even if he just said "I am a Chinese".

Its funny how studying another language makes you realise how inconsistent your own is eh!

I kind of wondered if it was British English too. No Brits have replied, but since the Aussies seem to agree, it seems that 'I'm a Chinese' is wrong across the board.

not Aussie..as above I agree with all xiaophil said too

In fact, according to the context, "je suis un Chinois" could be interpreted in several ways. But what comes first would be 我是华人. In english, if you hear "I am a chinese" I guess you would understand 我是中国人.

Btw, speaking of subtleties, you can't say "il est un chinois" (他是华人) because it's like saying "Once upon a time there were a Chinese..." ;o)

... could be because way back Chinese with broken English would refer to themselves as a 'China man' (which of course is now an awful word in English when not said by Chinese people). I can't help but wonder if this label evolved into the respectable and oft used 'Chinese person'.

I guess it's possible. I do think we lack confidence in the term "Chinese" (or "Japanese") by itself but are happy to say Americans / Germans / Koreans, probably because of the "s" (the inability to add "s" to "Chinese"). So we feel the need to say Chinese people.

Anyhow no, I don't think it's just the variety of English in your hometown.

So if you said "Je suis un Chinois" you are referring to ethnicity, and could only mean 我是（个）华人 (and not 我是中国人), you mean. I see. Opposite of English--? I'm getting confused here.

"I am a Chinese person" sounds 十分 bad in English too.

Thanks for the very interesting cultural-linguistic analysis Bodawei. I am becoming less and less confident of any convictions I had yesterday. And I'm starting to think now the term Americans is somehow unique, but can't quite place why. Maybe it's the heavily US-centric world view many Japanese in our generation were raised in (plus my educational background).

And only now I'm starting to really see Xiaophil and others' unease with saying "Chinese" instead of "Chinese (or Japanese) people". I too feel more comfortable saying "Chinese people this and that". When I say "the Chinese this and that", it feels like I'm making myself an authority of something that I'm certainly not. It sounds like the beginning of many a boorish generalization.

Actually, there's a clear difference in french and I think it's the opposite of what's used in english.

我是中国人 (or 我是华人) je suis chinois (if it's a man) je suis chinoise (if it's a woman)

我是华人 je suis un chinois (if it's a man) je suis une chinoise (if it's a woman)

As many chinese who try to speak french translate their sentences literally from english, this sort of mistake appears quite often.

Btw, don't try to translate literally "I am a chinese person" in french, it sounds terrible !

What's to stop 我是华人 from being translated as I am a Chinese as well? I'd be happy though, if you are right here; I like that distinction.

I do think that it might be a case where Chinese are trying to use grammar rules they have learned and other reasons to figure out how to say what they want to say and just came up with the wrong conclusion. What is ironic is that I guess the reason we say Chinese person in English could be because way back Chinese with broken English would refer to themselves as a 'China man' (which of course is now an awful word in English when not said by Chinese people). I can't help but wonder if this label evolved into the respectable and oft used 'Chinese person'.

I wonder if English ever had another word to refer to 中国人. Cathay was once used to refer to China. I wonder if there was a derivative of this word to refer to the people themselves?

We don't usually say 'Australian people' but we could, and I have been thinking about why this is so - keep in mind that it is getting late and this could all be perfect rubbish.

We do usually say 'Australians' or 'all Australians' (a bigger claim beloved of politicians) rather than 'Australian people' but I think this is because of our familiarity with Australians. Australian people would also be perfectly correct, but I would expect the speaker to be other than Australian (and maybe this is why 'American people came naturally to you.) Trying it with another country, 'X people' gives you a bit of distance, or scientific objectivity, like Darwin examining the extant species. You are right that 'the Australian people' carries a slightly different meaning again - the meaning here is closer to 'all Australians' (the politician's favourite.)

A. Australians like football, meat pies and Holden cars.* aka Aussies.

B. Australian people like football, meat pies and Holden cars. More formal, sounding a little scientific.

C. All Australians like football, meat pies and Holden cars. Rhetorical.

D. The Australian people like football, meat pies and Holden cars. Rhetorical and precious.

They all say slightly different things. A - Maaaaaate... everyone 'knows' these things, but no-one takes it too literally. B - like A but formal, maybe spoken by a foreigner, or a boffin. C - a bit more rhetorical than A - all Australians SHOULD like football etc. D - as for C, but making us sound like an endangered species.

* A myth if ever there was one. 1. More Australians play netball than football. 2. Many Australians are vegetarian, and even more who do eat meat would not eat a meat pie. 3. Holden, what's a Holden? I think we buy more Toyotas now than Holdens. (Culture point: a Holden model is sold in China under the GM or Buick badge.)

PS. I might have forgotten kangaroos. Sigh.. Well, that might spoil my myth assertion. Australia is indeed full of kangaroos. But do we like them? Well, we like to eat them. We like to watch them (just close enough to get a good shot.)

There's also the problem of ethnicity.

I think that "我是华人" is translated in english as "I am Chinese" which makes a clear distinction from "我是中国人" translated as "I am a Chinese".

"mitigating circumstances" in the case of using "a"..lol. Orangina, sorry, I just coudn't help joshing around with you. I do love reading both what you post and how you express it. I also do know exactly what you mean. Don't change and keep it coming. Cheers :)

You and darkstar are right about the derogatory sense of saying 'a French' or 'a (whatever)'. I hadn't thought about it until now. It reminds me of how people who are hostile towards homosexuality will say 'he is a gay'.

嗯，我的态度不好的。It's just that "a Chinese" has a ring of ignorance about it if there are no mitigating circumstances such as the speaker not being a native English speaker or using another English dialect. And perhaps I worded my feelings about the subject a bit strongly. I am prone to hyperbole.

wa, zhi you tingdao "a" jiu gei ni zhe zhong de xinli ji,hehe. Xianzai wo ting haoqi ni de ewai de xinli ji.

wo wanquan tongyi ni de kanfa

Well, "a Chinese" doesn't sound natural and normal to me... but when I arrived here and started hearing many people say it I had an internal dialog that pretty much mirrors everything said here. I did hear Chinese people in America using it but attributed it to less than perfect English. But you are right the shear mass of use here has broken down my resistance to the phrase. If an American said, "He is a Chinese" I would make a mental note that this person is likely prejudiced and keep a mental distance until I got more information to the contrary. (yes, I am aware of the irony in that sentence.) So hearing it come from Chinese people gives me a small shock and quick mental readjustment.

Okay, it looks like 'a Chinese' could be technically correct, but out of our sample of four (including me), nobody has come out and said, "a Chinese sounds completely natural and normal and its the way I choose to day it." Does anyone feel this way? This of course is VERY important :-).

Thanks Catherine. For some reason it isn't loading up all the way right now, but I will check later.

What I was trying to say is that New Zealand could be used as an adjective, e.g. 'that is a New Zealand tradition,' but we couldn't use it as a noun to refer to a person like we can, as you said, say 'he's an American'. I too would most likely say 'he is from New Zealand.' I think your country's name is a bit of an exception as it is composed of two words.

Side note: why does Firefox spell checker tell me Zealand is spelled wrong?

Hmm... "A Chinese" technically is correct, but it does sound weird. I'd sooner say "I am Chinese" than "I am a Chinese". I'd also say "Chinese people consume untold amounts of rice every year." You're right, the concept of "Chinese" being a plural noun is weird.

I think it should be 'a New Zealander' in that example, but I don't feel weird saying I'm a New Zealander. But personally I wouldn't say that, I'm more likely to say 'I'm from New Zealand'. And saying 'I'm New Zealander' to me just sounds wrong. I think 'a French' and 'a Scottish' carry more negative connotations to me, but they still sound wrong. I think it's just a matter of what we are used to, I suppose we are just used to hearing people saying 'I'm American' but not so much with the others. Maybe some of them just sound more like adjectives and other sound like nouns. Perhaps with the Scottish one, we can associate the 'ish' part to other adjectives like 'goodish' and 'badish' etc

There are different rules for different words. For example a "New Zealand" is not a person. A New Zealander is. A British person is a Briton (or, if we want to refer to the collective population, we can say the British). Whereas American (adj.) is the same as American (noun).

Chinese is a langauge, the Chinese are the people. When I'm talking I usually say "He is a Chinese person," though technically I believe Chinese is the correct noun for the "people of China."

If you're curious about other nationalities the CIA World Factbook, under the People tab for each nation, lists the noun and adjective used to describe that nationality.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

I was just thinking about these two sentences:

1) The Chinese consume untold amounts of rice every year.

2) Chinese consume untold amounts of rice every year.

Actually, number 2 doesn't rub me wrong that much, but I definitely think that number 1 sounds somehow more correct.

As for your American example, yes, I did think about it. English does seem willy-nilly when it comes to nationalities. In this case, 'a Chinese' falls under the bad feeling category that is shared by 'a French,' 'a New Zealand,' 'a Scottish,' and so on. What say you in this case?