some misunderstanding..

一般来说我不同意广义

Hi tvan

Which do you think is better?

I read the article and am mystified by several statements.  Such as the gentleman fleeing Shanghaiese women because they are 

" ... interested in nothing more than materialistic pursuits and superficial realities."

So he's going to.... New York?

I just read the China Daily article, and I'm curious about chinese men being characterised as introverted (chinese women too ?).  I take it that 'introversion' means being unwilling to express or share one's feelings and thoughts.   I know that the English are stereotyped in the same way, but I just don't see it in England....most people speak their mind freely, especially young people (same as in every country).

I'm not sure that this sort of stereotyping is fair...it seems to tell us more about the person who is doing the stereotyping than about the person who is being stereotyped.  When I look at the profiles of people who make comments on Chinesepod, I am often surprised to discover that they are not from the country I imagined them to be from.

I can't help thinking about the raucous banter issuing from the kitchen of the local chinese take-away.

Thank you for posting the interesting article!

After reading it I cannot help to think it proves exactly the opposite?!! What I find even more interesting (not the part about the sad lad who cannot find a gf, maybe it is not the 750 million Chinese ladies, but YOU!) is the part about how Chinese men perceive Western women and vice versa!

To back this up with my personal "frustration" :-p  : I only got "hit on" once during my 1.5 year stay in China and it was by four businessmen (driving!! a very tacky / expensive BMW) and they were too drunk to notice any traffic lights / regulations. Needless to say I do not find that very impressive....

(I still like to believe it is not me haha!)

However, as I stated before: I have not met one attractive Chinese man up to date, where as Japan was the complete opposite (my husband! said exactly the same thing).

Also, I rarely see western women dating Chinese men. Now, why is that? I have difficulties to believe that all Chinese men are "spitting, smelly and badly groomed" or as the article states: "Chinese men don't pay attention to their appearance; they don't wash their hair everyday, don't shower everyday, and so they don't smell all that good,".

This is a good article in China daily  explaining the dating scene between chinese girls and the ever popular foreigner/ex-pats. Apparently some people can see through the transparent motives of chinese girls as someone in the article describes Shanghai as overflowing with local women interested in nothing more than materialistic pursuits and superfical realities. I dont think you'd see this behavior in the States or UK, at least  "not in your face" kinda way.

tong2shang4 同上

I thought Henning's "Characters will be changed" post was very interesting. But I had nothing productive or interesting to add.... not that that has stopped me before.

Changye is resposible for all the smut. Does that photo of your dog have to be so provocative ? Actually, it's quite an attractive looking dog........

Changye,
thanks (although I indeed thought is was sensational news).

Maybe nobody saw the sexual innuendo in the Sina-Articel? :P

You never know what kind of posting/topic is going to become a big (sleeper) hit. You know, this thread already has more than one hundred comments, including 14 postings of mine.

Ironically enough, a thread that has a more "linguistically" sensational title, "Characters will be changed" posted by Henning, only has one comment (of mine) as of now, unfortunately.

He clearly tried to make the "not so attractive" article sounds as exciting as possible by giving it a "charming" title, .... without much success. Maybe it was some sort of "挂羊头卖狗肉", hehe.

Anyway, I thank henning very much for posting the thread.

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/5644#comment-130755

tvan,

you actually managed to sound more boring than the list.

Where's the hunting, fishing, poker playing, and drinking escape clause?  

"... arrive home as cheery and lighthearted as you can"

Uhhhhhhhh哦哦哦哦哦哦哦哦.....

If my "hubby dearest" would follow all those rules, I would immediately call my lawyer hahaha! I miss the MAN in the rules :-)

Do I sign at the bottom ?

按东亚三国的标准，男人只要酒后不打老婆就可以算是个好丈夫！

"Do not resort to name calling, hitting, spitting, breaking dishes or anything else when you lose your temper." Obviously, the Devil is hidden in the details. 魔鬼隐藏在细节里 ???

It's a well known fact that marriage is the number one cause of divorce.

just wanted to add my 2 cents about Polyandry, I think if your wife was considering Polyandry then maybe you got some serious issues that need addressing. I know men never want to admit how jealous & possessive they really are. And if more people focused their attention on their partners or actually put the partner's feelings first we wouldnt have so much divorce (I know some marriages were wrong from the start and thats another topic) but for those who take the risk of ruining a great relationship by inviting another person into the equation, especially if they think they wont get caught, maybe they shouldnt be married in the first place, but when in a committed relationship each person needs to take the time to really consider the partner's feelings, should make you stop and think twice about doing it, sorry guys but thats my perspective, why risk a relationship (for selfish wants not needs)  remember those wedding vows- I think most vows include the phrase forsaking all others  more people need to respect their partners,  honor the vows, sure things can change over the course of time, but if you really arent happy with your partner dont lower yourself and that applies to both men and women, whats happened to growing old together with the 1 person you fell in love with. Monogamy can work if you want it to

23177... The British invented Ping Pong according to Gordon Brown, he said they called it Wiffle Waffle.  Supports your theory of thoroughly British sports inventorship.

FIFA officially announced that football (soccer) is originated in China in 2004. Of course, it depends on the definition of soccer. To tell you the truth, I thought that soccer was originated in Korea. I heard such a claim somewhere before.

The very earliest form of the game for which there is scientific evidence was an exercise from a military manual dating back to the second and third centuries BC in China. (FIFA)
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/history/game/historygame1.html

2004年7月15日,在北京展览馆举行的第三届中国国际足球博览会,纪念国际足联百年华诞的特别活动,国际足联主席布拉特向全世界郑重宣布,足球最初起源于中国,并由亚足联秘书长维拉潘颁发确认纪念证书（人民网）
http://olympic.people.com.cn/GB/58224/59753/5901754.html

国际足联主席布拉特将在博览会期间正式宣布：中国山东淄博市的临淄区是足球运动的发源地（人民网）
http://2008.people.com.cn/BIG5/58224/59753/5901754.html

I thought we weren't supposed to be talking about cars.

Anyway, I just googled golf and found out that your game of kolven uses bent clubs; so it's not proper golf. Ha!  How do they manage a straight shot with a bent club ? An englishman's club is usually straight. I mean.....

The Dutch invented Golf :-)

And no fake blood ?  I like Ping Pong. Everyone knows that the British invented all the major sports in the world.....american football is just rugby dressed up in armour, and schoolgirls here were playing rounders long before the yanks called it baseball. But who invented Ping Pong ? Did it come from China ?

Chanelle, right, next time I'm in the Nanjing 'hood, I'll drop you a PM... I have found just a couple of fixes to my groundstrokes and about 2 tips on my serve has  made a world of difference - obviously, I'm still rubbish, but when I hit the ball, I expect it to go over the net, whereas before, I just hit and hoped. I can even hit it vaguely in the direction I intend now! All after about 6 lessons. I should have done this years ago!

user21377, I've just spent the past 2 hours playing tennis. Am happy to report no embarrassing accidents involved.

There seems to be an international epidemic of tennis; I hope to god it's not as virulent as swine-flu. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike sports in general, in fact sport runs in my blood - my father was captain of the Heckmondwyke and District over-50s mixed-sex nudist leap-frog team until his embarrassing accident ......

@sebire 真的吗？谢谢啊！ i have to excuse myself from answering the rest in chinese (my new netbook has a strange chinese imput and does not write what i want it to write). well if you happen to be close to nanjing let's play together one time ;-) ! I hope it will go well next saturday (i have a class with my mother in law ;-) ) Is it difficult to learn?

There's always been a strong presence of philosophers on national football teams.

Watch this famous match.

Non-youtube version, available in China?

Here.

我真的喜欢打网球!!　Chanelle，我学打网球学了六个星期了，我和我的朋友真提高我们的打网球能力了。现在连网球都过网了！我希望你玩得开心！

next Saturday I have my first tennis lesson. I bet that is intersting to watch :-)

RJ

Too right. Only thing worse is tennis....boredom-index is about the same as counting sheep i.e. marginally more interesting than watching paint dry, but not as engaging as watching nettle-rash come up.

American Football or European Football?

21377

Im with you. I have no interest in football. If you've seen one game, you have seen them all.

Just because a man has a bad idea, I see no reason to copy him. I think many men have had much existential regret due to polgyny... I have enough bad ideas of my own.

Poetic license

Is the problem whether the ball exists, or is the problem the absurdity of the ball's existence? Apparently Camus once said, "All I know most surely about morality and obligations, I owe to football." For which you could plausibly substitute "shopping", "breeding hamsters" or anything else (except, perhaps "philosophy").

chanelle77

As long as we agree that my money is a figment, but your's really exists !

Camus played soccer ?  How did he manage it ? He'd be too busy figuring out if the ball existed or not.

If you combine existentialism AND shopping you have me :-)  compro ergo sum!

@sophiezh1 exactly! *wink wink*

Chanelle77, thanks for providing the link

I vote for polyandry!!! 

Its not just a man's world anymore :-)

Of course, if you want to combine existentialism AND football, you can go for Albert Camus instead - the only 20th century Western philosopher who played football for his national team.

Not all men like football and cars, you know. Oh no. You'd not catch me discussing football. Not in a month of Sundays. Some, like me, are rather sensitive souls, ahem. You'd likely find me discussing the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, or Being and Nothingness.        Then I'd collapse on the bathroom floor.

It really rather depends if they will spend all the time talking about football and cars, go out, get drunk, come home and then fall asleep on the floor of the bathroom, where you are then unable to open the door to use the loo. Bad enough if it happens with one male, let alone two!

@sebire

Ha, ha I think it could work out very well as long as the 2 men could handle it after all many women have been put through these types of relationships for far too long so its about time to turn the tables, yes I kinda like the idea... 

Hi sebire

I don't know which is "less bad", two drunken husbands or two screaming wives. I suppose that polyandry (one woman have more than one husband) might possibly become popular here in China in the near future, because China is now facing a ever-worsening large gender imbalance.

In short, there are more men than women in the RPC, especially in younger generations. Furthermore, I hear some male Chinese just can't afford a wife because they don't have enough money to buy a house before they get married. However, two men might be able to afford buying a house for a bride!!

真不知道这里面是中国人多还是学习中文的人多

My goodness, being married to two men - sounds like hell. What happens if they both go out and get drunk together?

Henning, I say blame Darwin. If you want to reprogramme everyone, ensure that men also have babies. It's this fundamental imbalance that is the problem!

User from Scunthorpe - I wonder if these tribes have social set-ups that maximise the child's survival, e.g. scant resources hence more than one father being rather handy.

Exactly! :-)

I agree with you chanelle77 why let men have all the fun?

Exactly, Polyandry is the solution! ;-) I must say i have a nice pair of genes! hahaha

henning, sebire:

I think sebire is partly right, but I think her perspective is limited to a particular culture and a particular time, and i don't think there's any need to despair.

I think it's monogamy which is the problem, not our genes. There are, and have been, many tribal societies in which children are cared for by the society in general, and no one gives a hoot who the father is.Maybe we should accept what we are and come to terms with the social (monogamous) reality in which we live. I don't think it will last for ever.

sebire,
you wrote:

I thought the whole point was that women sleep with the hottest guy and then con the one with the most money to look after it by convincing him that is his child (through hiding ovulation). However, the men go round sleeping with everyone to spread their genes as far as possible!

Sigh. Exactly. And the resulting area of conflict is what the ever repeating dramas of life (and fiction) are made of. Actually, the more I think about it the more boring it becomes. 

Maybe it will get more interesting when we begin tempering with our genes to modify the genetic programming of our affections, motives, behavioural patterns, and understanding of beauty?

哈哈，那个‘呢？’很可爱——是故意的吗？　　那下星期见！

@shenyajin, 谢谢.

So.... @chris_wei, 你在对我说吗？呢?  

@tvan, “You talkin' to me?" “你在跟我说吗？”“你在对我说吗？” Nǐ zài gēn wǒ shuō ma？”“nǐ zài duì wǒ shuō ma？”

@zhenlijiang, 可能你对。中文怎么说 “You talkin' to me?" 是没什么的，就一点庸俗的。大概是个小孩儿。

@holly, 这两天面条没有来。

tvan,zhenlijiang,

drive by,自言自语的人 [I'll have to remember that one],you talkin to me [good taxi driver quote zhen].....thanks for starting my day with a laugh.Good stuff,hehe.

这两天面条，有没有到这里面来啊

lechuan,

There's a saying over here which goes something like: "You can't con a good man". But it's just not true; it's just a con-man's rationalisation. Not everyone thinks the same way we do....some are just plain bad. Obviously, we can't know what was going through the mind of the poor guy, and we don't know exactly what went on, but it sounds like he got well and truly shafted.

By the way, it's good to see that so many people have a sparkling sense of humour here.

:-)

路过

@user21377 - I'm in no way defending the young woman's actions here either. Having been involved in a rather dissapointing cross-cultural relationship myself in the past which colored my view of the other culture for a long time. For me anyways, accepting some responsibility helped me to overcome the bitterness I was harboring inside.

Tvan 在这里能看到好多只不过是自言自语的人啊。所以我们首先该问的不是‘你干嘛’或者‘有什么意思’，应该是 You talkin' to me?  对吧。

Hmmm, guess it was a "drive by."

@chris_wei 你干吗这样？有什么意思？

suck

lechuan,

That sounds like the "She/He wuz asking for it, Your Honour!" type of defence. 

So the guy divorced his wife to go after a woman 20 years his junior? Doesn't seem fair just to blame the young woman.

calkins,

What are the stats on this ?  Who's done the research ?  You been out with a ruler ? Where I come from you'd need a yardstick.

Ladies, make Scunthorpe your dream-destination.

What?!  I thought Chinese women loved western men because of their big(ger) little head!

還開玩笑。

Sebire, exactly! :-)

chanelle, I've definitely never heard a man complain in this country of women throwing themselves at them! (Or maybe I just hang out with ugly people).

I thought the whole point was that women sleep with the hottest guy and then con the one with the most money to look after it by convincing him that is his child (through hiding ovulation). However, the men go round sleeping with everyone to spread their genes as far as possible!

I agree though, historically, marriages are economic contracts. Anyone that's read any Jane Austen knows that!

原罪自负 (I wonder if the christian connotation of 原罪 would really make sense in chinese)

原罪自负 has 0 result with Google  :o(

Zhen

the wisest man has made the most mistakes.

Frankly, Im shocked by the whole thing. I thought the world was a nice place where everything was on the up and up.

My thoughts exactly.
Well we all live and learn, don't we RJ!

Frankly, Im shocked by the whole thing. I thought the world was a nice place where everything was on the up and up. Damn blisters.

and Tal, you are begining to worry me :-)

Pchenery

Careful, that could be taken two ways. You dont want to start another myth about why western men are more desireable, although tvan left than one out. I think Chanelle said it best and I love the blisters thing. No wonder I like to stand so much.

(a) 自作自受
(b) 后果自负

You often see signs that say 后果自负 here in China. They always scare me.

For an equivalent of "If you burn you ass you have to sit on the blisters", I only know 自食恶果 (you have to eat the bad fruits you made).

edit typo: deduct = "induct"

Changye, that is exactly what I meant :-). If I take my personal experiences as facts en deduct a general worldview.... oh my...

Happyying, although I am very sorry to hear about your friend, in Dutch we have a saying for that: literally translated it goes like: If you burn you ass you have to sit on the blisters. :-p

Brings me to the question does Chinese have something similar?

Still, I think every culture  has (wo)men with economic motives. Now I think about it, isn't every relation about "economics" in some sense? There has to be some sort of balance (emotionally, financially etc..). Although I love my husband dearly, i wanted to get married before moving to China so I would have a better financial and legal position. You could say my motives for marriage were economical as well. Every women that I know and gave up her career (independence) did the same. If I understand you correctly, financial motives are something "bad", but I am not so sure about that (if the balance is right). I think it is a bit old fashioned to purely depend on LUV (or money) I hope this does not come as a shock, but I think "it is everywhere in the world about money". ;-)

(maybe some (wo)men are just more honest about it ?)

Sorry guys, from an anecdotal perspective, I've seen how some Chinese women flirt outrageously with guys who wouldn't get a look-in at home. Amber did that show saying that expat men were at the top of the pecking order, and expat women were at the bottom (certainly seemed that way to me). I've even heard men complain that women are only interested in them because they are white!

I have a "little ego" and a huge "little brother head". So I don't quite fit happyying's theory. Anyone else with a 大小头 who would like to comment ?

Okie doke, I think I'm getting there!

yes, the 'little head' is usually kept in the dark, and doesn't see too well.

Well, happyying does make some good points I think.

Men have huge ego's... especially when men tend to rationalize things using their little head (that has no brain) instead of using the real brain or (logical) head  and maybe they'd realize when they're being used.

It's the location of the 'little head' and the 'logical' head that's got me puzzled.

Those darn foreigners and their stereotyping !

When communicating with Chinese women, why can't they just type using hanzi  ?

//Alot of chinese girls/women who will take advantage of you and your money, after they get what they want from you, well then you will mean nothing to them, yes they will use tricks, promises and all the time pretend to be very innocent when in fact they know all the games to play on you.//

yeah, I'm with tvan on this. Any woman can do that to you - if you let them!

well that's my mornings vent of cynical misogyny done.

The truth is that if a guy marries a woman who does that to him, then perhaps he married her for the wrong reasons, and he married her without really getting to know her properly first. My 2 cents worth

I've been trying to control myself, but I just can't take it any longer.

so why is that? and why do chinese girls want to marry white guys?

Because we're so charming, debonair, handsome, romantic... gentlemen in the hallways, he-men in bed.

Alot of chinese girls/women who will take advantage of you and your money, after they get what they want from you, well then you will mean nothing to them, yes they will use tricks, promises and all the time pretend to be very innocent when in fact they know all the games to play on you.

Uhhh, I think that's all women.  Unlike us men who are much simpler and honest in our relationships.

Hi happyying

Looks like you still don't understand what channelle77 means. I just recommend you learn statistics, especially the concepts about a population, a sample, and significance level, etc.

@channelle77

yes I do have personal knowledge, happened to a friend, he (48) met a younger (29) chinese woman when he traveled to China,  she convinced him she wanted and loved him, he fell for it believed her thought he found the perfect girl of his dreams, got a divorce from his wife of 20 years (very messy & expensive divorce) after divorce ex-wife got house child support & alimoney plus half his pension when he retires, the chinese woman said now he didnt have enough money to buy her a house or keep her happy even though he gave up everything (almost ruined relationship with his kids ) so she left him, but was lucky for him he hadnt married her, this is not a happy ending its actually a very sad story and he was beyond devastated still trying to fix situation with the kids he almost lost forever because of this chinese woman, who has probably moved on to the next guy she could manipulate, Yes its always about the money and if you're living in China you probably have heard stories too, I agree it can happen in other countries  but not as often as it does in China.

Men need to stop being so gullible and learn to recognize when they are being told lies and flattery. Men have huge ego's that is fueled  by the chinese women who play these games, especially when men tend to rationalize things using their little head (that has no brain) instead of using the real brain or (logical) head  and maybe they'd realize when they're being used.

Well I still think we're under-rating the dogs and the cats! I respect any creature that will give simple, uncomplicated affection in return for food, protection, and the occasional scratch behind the ears. To (mis)quote calkins: I know from experience that some Chinese women don't do that!

(and yeah, still totally playing here!)

Hi chenelle77

Many thanks for your clear overestimation of Japanese men. I also think that Chinese men are not so good-looking, but I can see a lot of beautiful Han women here in China. Furthermore, they often have a very good figure! Maybe we are overmarking the opposite sex, aren't we?

@happyying, I do not think anyone is offended, just adding some light to the "discussion".

But, I wonder where do you get your facts? Can you cite some sources or is this "experience"? I am very curious :-)

again, sorry if some people are offended, but facts are facts and yes it is true western men are often favored but its all about the western money and how this kind of thing happens more often than not  with chinese girls.   

 I'm wondering why sisi_baby started this post, was she looking for sympathy ??

To continue with the stereotyping:

Changye this might cheer you up: when I was in Japan I was surprised to see so many good looking men (until now I have not met one in China haha).Maybe European women are more into Japanese? ;-) Now, I always tell my husband that if I cheat on him it would be a Chinese women *wink wink*.

The *facts* are that "more Chinese women marry the money"? Maybe it is so because Chinese women are in the majority (+/-600.000.000)? Statistically it might be more likely that more Chinese women do such thing compared to their for example Thai counterpart?

Anyway, what I was trying to say is: I respectfully disagree with Chinese women being more into "white men" for the money. This is something from all times, gender, race etc. To be honest, I am not sure if I wouldn't do the same when I read some heart breaking stories about women working in factories! My Chinese teacher told me a funny story about mothers giving their daughter marital advice:

The number one rule was: get your hands on the money! Amen :-p

Hi calkins

I believe your story. I saw a neighbor with a scratched face before. I know he doesn't have a cat.

Evidently I know something you guys dont because I will take the woman any day. My wife does bite me now and then, but I like it. :-) And she feeds me. (I am not a very good cook after all.)

changye, a cat is better than both a dog and a woman...you don't have to walk a cat.  Even better because a cat won't lick you (unless of course that's what you're in to ;)  Maybe bite and scratch, but I know from experience that some Chinese women do that!

(totally playing here btw).

貓

Hi kimiik

A woman clearly has a good point that a dog doesn't have. You don't have to walk a woman every morning.

Hi tal,

A dog is an animal, it likes you because you provide food and protection, otherwise it could bite you or even eat you. Women are not that different and have to work hard to control their animal brain in this same situation but it's feasible. ;o)

unwavering ......... as long as I feed her.

Don't be regretful about it bro, I think you're better off with your chubby dog! A dog's affection is unwavering after all!

Hi tal

I don't know about that, but I can say that Western men are far more popular with Chinese girls than Japanese men are, unfortunately....

chanelle, I would guess that's an atypical situation! ;)

changye, happyying is clearly just being atypically honest about Chinese women!?

I married my (white) husband for a Chinese visa and now do not want to go back to Europe. How about that?! ;-)

Hi happyying

Judging from your personal profile, probably you're a Chinese woman. Am I right?

I'm sorry if I offended you but these are facts and yes I will agree it probably does happen in other countries, but its not as common  (where its known to happen alot in China) so why is that? and why do chinese girls want to marry white guys? its because they think there is more advantage, better lifestyle, citizenship in the US, ?  I doubt its for love because when the man cant afford a particular way of living or runs out of money, that girl disappears-only to seek out another unsuspecting fool.

and I have nothing against chinese girls/women in general I just dont appreciate when using these types of tricks and then pretend they are innocent and I know people that this happened

 apparently you know this to be true also or your post wouldnt have started with "Some misunderstanding.."

上面可不清楚。 第一句就@pete

第二句就@长夜。

那我会听你们的，Pete我要冷静点。

长夜，那我从此要多努力。

好了好了， 那他说不了解，你觉得意味着什么意思？

那接口攻击面条！大哥，那不是的老样子！不是你还不懂中国文化的含蓄。

Hi miantiao,

我不觉得她话里有话。她只不过第一次来留言，跟大家都不熟。请冷静一点，大哥 ;-)

Hi changye,

Everyone screws up from time to time. I know I do.

Please everyone, assume good will, until proven otherwise.

Hi sisi_baby,

I'm not sure what you're hoping will come from this conversation.

Of course we should all respect one another, regardless of gender or nationality.

Hi miantiao

Looks like your reading ability in Chinese is much worse than I thought before. Probably that's the very reason why your profile shows you are a newbie learner.

你不但来这里诡诈同学，你也悄悄地骂他们中文水平很差。什么样的人你呀？

你的英文也不算什么。

miantao...

不是不愿意说中文，是我对大家的中文底子没有谱儿。。

怕我说了，大家又看不懂。那就失去交流的意义了呀。。

祝你和你的女友甜甜蜜蜜啦

:)

happyying.....

I think u are despised on CHinese girls..

I know that many girls wanna go abroad and they married with white men..BUt other countries have this phenomenon as well. CHiese girl is not the only one...

any foreign man needs to be extremely careful because in deed there are Alot of chinese girls/women who will take advantage of you and your money, after they get what they want from you, well then you will mean nothing to them, yes they will use tricks, promises and all the time pretend to be very innocent when in fact they know all the games to play on you.. Be careful or you could lose alot

呵呵！宝贝儿，不愿意讲中文呢！没关系，各个人都会矛盾呗！这很正常。但是我看你有一点诡计。

我女友不是那样子。他没有期望移民， 就一直说要我留在中国成为中国人诶！他说话也不是，哎哟怎么说呢，很色彩，外表比较凶，他内心不过很温柔。

你最后的句子我做不到，关于女人性格中国不是像各个国家一样呗！不是有善良温柔的、恶心诡计的、各种性格的嘛！