Where is everyone

Fair enough. Thanks for this. I was taking from the OpenLanguage evolution that Cpod is going to look more and more like OpenLanguage in about another couple of years, if not sooner. My opinion also, only informed by observation.

about what I wrote above:

"I actually think they're reviewing their policy/style on this right now as I write this, trying to decide what they're going to do"--this is just a feeling I got based on what I've seen over a week or so. I don't know anything.

Sorry, didn't mean to spread any false rumors.

My observations: Again I'm looking mainly at Japanese but it seems to me like they have decided to limit (keep to a minimum) staff "community" involvement at OpenLanguage, and if so I can understand. It takes a lot of effort to answer questions well, and that might be one of the lessons taken away from running Chinese and all the other Pods, that the cost of doing that constantly is just too high in relation to the kind of subscription fees people are willing to pay. The main host (English speaker) in Japanese does post (has posted? I actually think they're reviewing their policy/style on this right now as I write this, trying to decide what they're going to do), he has answered user questions about the lesson material and Japanese language and posted discussion starters.

Guess we'll see, if any user communities will grow at OpenLanguage. I don't think any have yet.

Saw a Jenny post in a FrenchPod lesson just now but it was in 2012 (about tech issues).

So it's different, from the ChinesePod when I was here. OpenLanguage provide the lesson material, and I think users are meant to use it and not expect personal tutoring or the kind of support they were used to at the Pods.

Thanks zhenlijiang. So I'd take it that you'd say that OpenLanguage is behaving the way that Chinesepod does? Wondering if Jenny or Hank ever post there, or if OpenLanguage really is just other users helping each other. In other words, there is not OpenLanguage staff member commenting for language support?

(duh it's not called JapanesePod of course. It's OpenLanguage Japanese)

The Chinese lessons are new, not from ChinesePod. They have a Japanese host + native speaker.

Hi pretzellogic, I have an account (no subscription). Haven't really looked at the other languages but I try to help out sometimes at JapanesePod in my limited capacity.

Every lesson has a discussion section. Unlike here I don't think you can post pictures and such (so the conversations stay on topic! discuss the lesson material). （＾ｖ＾）

When you log in and click on "Conversations" you get a look at the latest posts in the language you're studying.

Hey wait. I see now they have Chinese, in OpenLanguage. Think this is new. Ah they're teaching it in Japanese! For me anyway.

i would be ok if they reduced their output. They have so many lessons and I'd rather they create higher quality ones with less errors.

Instead they need to organize existing lessons into more theme based sets. This helps focus your Chinese studies some.

Also they need to revise the audio mistakes in some of the older lessons like Lao Wang's office and lili and zhang liang. The review sections are filled with cut off audio.

Of course they are all off for the week for new year. Let's see what happens if anything next week

I predict that within a year, CPod will go the way of ChineseClass101, and reduce their weekly output, re-posting old lessons to fill the gaps.

Of course I could be wrong, but no-one at CPod seems willing to counter our guesswork.

I get the impression that chinesepod is sorely understaffed. I've sent qingwen requests via e-mail and all i get are automated responses.

Regarding Changye's 7000 posts, that has happened for at least the last 3 years between the 1st of the month and the following Monday.

It is just the top 10 all-time posters.

But yes, other than that the site is beginning to look neglected. The team page has at least 3 people who haven't worked for CPod for 2 years or more: John Biesnecker, Peter Ning and Helen Shen.

The old boat is really seems to be creaking at the moment. There are so many signs of neglect and decay - lack of Quality Control, apparently fall in academic authority (losing Connie and John seems to mean that we are relying on others as pinyin/translation/pinyin experts who make mistakes), site technical errors not being fixed, questions not being answered.

Incidentally the community team tag still shows John and Connie. Just another example of lack of maintenance of the site. Actually if you look at the rankings tag for this week you find that Changye appears to have posted 7537 times, and there is no data for 2013 - these matters are not important but just give a bad impression of the integrity of the underlying database and (for some time) have suggested that technical expertise and continuity has been lost too.

Dedicated Mandarin learners ie we users, surely are a very intelligent bunch of in the main Westerners to whom these things are obvious, and to whom occasional posts by Jenny are not reassuring. Some of us (sorry) are very demanding and indeed critical as we have supported what used to be the gold standard for Mandarin on the internet.

I just hope that someone there has got the managerial ability to get recovery plans in place and implemented, and I hope that they have the sensitivity to the Western user base to actually communicate credibly.

I can only hope that the new year of the Horse brings new fortune

I think its time for Chinese Pod to say 'enough of just one format'. As you say, there is more than enough material for new learners. And honestly, without John the podcasts are just not the same. Its time to try something new. They decided some time back that there was enough Newbie material, and the same is true now of Elementary. Where does someone at the Elementary level get the chance to listen to more than 20 seconds straight of Chinese on this site?

And I think perhaps ChinesePod should take note that for the first time EVER there are posts at the end of page 1 from 5 days ago. In '09/'10, there was almost never a post on page 1 from more than 24 hours ago, and it NEVER reached 2 days ago, not even during the quiet holiday periods.

Maybe they could combine Media, Advanced, and Beijing Standard Time and make it a current events show, with a lot more Mandarin that BST currently has but more supporting written material than the Media lessons have.

I have to agree with everything you said except I dont see how you can then be sure that staff left on their own. Regardless, all cpod had to do was announce their departure. They dont have to say why, just dont play the silence game. But you have spoken the truth. I have often wondered how many lessons will they one day decide are enough. The long timers are definitely a minority.

I made as many contentious comments as GM as I did with any other account (as you well know, by what happened to that account). It was just a matter of which account I happened to be using at the time.

Except for a handful of 'special circumstances' which all involved one person (such as the pissing fountain), I didn't decide 'this account will be used for good and this for bad'. What you saw from my main account was what you saw elsewhere, so this 'sock puppet' rubbish is irrelevant.

With regard to your last comment, you've raised something similar with me before (I couldn't find the conversation). And my response is the same - HUH??. And what on earth would that have to do with 'sock puppets'?

Right, well Im sure thats right, but its only part of the story. Im sure no-one would ever have noticed your sock puppets if you didnt also use them for mischief. Why , for example, trash FPod?

O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us

To see oursels as ithers see us!

Happy Burns Day, everyone.

To make use of the 7 day free subscription, as RJ has already alluded to.

No free subscription = little use for new accounts.

(And I know - you are going to say I owe CPod even more money. Spare me.)

Well if its not to try and get away with all sorts of trouble making mischief, why have sockpuppets?

The Claytons response.

*facepalm*

RJ, This is not actually directed at you, but .... well .... you know .... it seems to have recently become the practice here to talk to someone through a third person. Apparently when you do that you can't be accused of harassment.

Just a few points:

1. This has been my sole (commenting) account for at least 9 months, and with the exception of a one-post appearance, my sole account for 18 months.

2. At least a third of all people who have been accused of being me were clueless innocents.

3. I personally don't understand how a grown man could expend so much effort and derive such apparent satisfaction from talking about klingons.

4. What exactly is the issue with 'sock-puppets'? Is there a legal issue here? Does a person really have an obligation to disclose that he is actually the same person as blah. Given that almost everyone here uses pseudonyms and fake avatars ... if we don't have to disclose that THIS fake profile equates to THAT real person, then why do we have to disclose that THIS fake profile equates to THAT fake profile? (Almost all profiles being fake.)

What is the difference between hiding your true identity behind a fake persona and hiding your fake persona behind another fake persona? (I'm expecting some kind of twisted rationalisation in response.) Its not like I've ever had these accounts talking to each other as though in some fantasy game.

Okiedoke... I really can't be doing with puppets, I never really quite understood how a grown man, (I presume Bob is one, physically at least,) could expend so much effort and derive such apparent satisfaction from all those stupid games. In fact this whole thing is just boring me to death now, enough already. (An Americanism, lol.)

Bob asked me where I got the idea that the 7 day trial removal had anything to do with sock puppets so I posted an old discussion page where John agrees that they should do this for that proposed reason. The rest of the page is full of complaints about the bugs related at the time to the new AMS2 computer system roll-out (evidently the use of roll-out to mean implementation is an Americanism?) Anyway it was a rocky road for a long while (another Americanism?) and in case anybody read the whole thing I mentioned that mankini's comments had been deleted (since they were referenced by users such as "mattiask") . Actually if you remember, mankini was suspected to be a sock puppet created by a cpod employee whom I wont mention and it was never proven. So it has nothing to do with Bob. Mynash was also mentioned but I left him out since they were not direct references. These were just side comments in case anybody else read the page (which is probably unlikely). I cant help it if Bob always sees men hiding in his bushes but I dont recall ever "attacking" him either alone or in concert. I have always been civil and until now, so has he in any responses to me. Btw - what is an old-zeimer? An Austalianism for old timer? So puppet one to puppet two, project diversion aborted. Suggest reanimation of puppet Zhen to counter puppet fract001. Likely to be fract002 next month.

Sorry, who are you?

aaanyhow mate, I don't agree with you ripping CPod off, but I've made my point [ sure it's an uncomfortable truth you'll never want to acknowledge ], and apart from this important point for which I make no apology, am pretty sure you will have taken my last bit of silliness in the lighthearted way it should have been [haha, lets face it, you will have had no regard for it at all...as you say, I'm not important, so I'm sure there's no hard feelings there], bid you adieu, Happy Australia Day weekend and all that.

You appear to have something in your eye.

haha, to paraphrase, you're wondering if there could be others out there like you, with your habits, and inclinations....sorry Bob, I don't think so, you're very special you see ;)

Yes I've wondered whether Tal, RJ, baba and zhen are actually the same person talking to themselves. Looks like zhen has been discontinued now though.

people with games

[or is it just one person with many sock puppets ?, lol ]

And a chair as well.

lol, keep looking mate, there's care in there

Did I use the word 'care'? I can't find it.

Were you thinking of 'Mynash', RJ? As I recall bob/go_manly/God_bigot/etc etc had so many 'guises' both before and after he was banned from Chinesepod several years ago. Shame these things can't be enforced on a permanent basis huh?

"MY issue as stated in my first comment is that CPod allowed this to happen"

oh, so glad to hear it is an issue for you after all, especially as I have a solution. You can rectify it so it was like it never happened to you by, here it is, just paying what you would have paid if it never happened. Bingo, there you go mate, go for it, simple. Then you issue that you care about will be solved. So you did care after all. Good onya mate. :)

Actually I said nothing about your 99 cent issue and that doesnt concern me either way. I was originally responding to your response to mikeinewshot regarding the drop in postings. Then you asked a question and I answered it.

Your 'crux of the matter' is simply what YOU want the conversation to be about, and is an irrelevance to me. You seem to believe that you trump me in deciding what the issue for discussion will be - I'm afraid you are not that significant.

Yours is such a big issue that at last count an army of three people had taken up the attack. And, which three people? The same three tired old-zeimers with an axe to grind. If this plays out as it usually does, zhenlijiang will come out of stalking mode very shortly. First Tal, then baba, then RJ and finally zhenlijiang - its the same order of attack every time. And then ....... no-one. Ever.

MY issue as stated in my first comment is that CPod allowed this to happen. It is you who has been diverting from MY issue since then. And if you honestly believe someone is going to pay CPod what you claim they owe then sorry, but you are delusional.

RJ, I have absolutely no idea what 'rocky roll outs' refers to. Those three words just don't belong together. I'm pretty sure I've never heard of Mankini - perhaps you are thinking of Mynash.

Well there is this hint a little more than half way down the page.

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/5700

I had not remembered it being related to a suggestion of mine but John did indicate that stopping 7 day posting privileges would be a good anti puppet idea and that he planned to move on it. Eventually they found an even better solution. Eliminate entirely the trial and replace with sample lessons. I dont doubt there may have been other reasons as well.

This page brings back some bad memories of one of the rocky roll outs that were poorly handled. Posts from the puppet of the day "Mankini" (remember him) have been deleted.

Yes, I needed a question mark. Thought you were wondering to yourself. Also not relevant to a discussion on what you owe CPod. Seems you will continue to avoid those questions which get to the crux of the matter and continue to try and divert the discussion elsewhere. Very telling. I rest my case.

Goodnight everyone. Thanks for the evening of entertainment.

"I wonder how many people have repaid record companies after a pang of guilt. Or is active theft less of a misdemeanour than passive acceptance of a 'bonus'."

Sorry I couldn't find your answer. Or do you need a question mark to recognise a question?

"Simultaneity does not prove causality"

Which is true of course. But given the immediate (and I mean absolutely immediate) reduction in the number of posts, it would be hard to say that this was not the main cause. I wish I'd kept stats - its only 'up here' (trying to point to the brain in my avatar but not able to locate it).

I'm wondering which CPod staff member explained to you the reason for dropping the 7 day option? Or can you point me to the thread or News and Features where this was mentioned?

And yes I agree with your last two sentences.

I already answered your question. I'll have to take it you won't answer my questions because you can't. You can't justify it so you'll just dodge around it.

here here

Public schools in NSW don't go broke unless the government goes broke. Yes, that is completely beside the point, but I don't see the use in humouring your contrived scenario when you won't properly consider my very real scenario. If you can't see the relevance of the situation I described then you are just being obtuse, and I really hope for your sake it is deliberate.

simultaneity does not prove causality. As I remember most of the ongoing discussions were among the long time users. How do you explain the drop in those posts as recorded (some) on the rankings page? The 7 day option was dropped to help stem the number of sock puppet "attacks". Many factors contributed to the decline of comments, too numerous to get into here, but I do think had cpod responded with honesty and directness instead of doublespeak and silence to the many glitches and issues, customers would have supported them. Nobody likes to be treated like a fool.

"The legal situation justifies it for me."

ha, I don't think so. I'm no legal expert but I would have thought a company was within it's legal rights to pursue monies owed to them, but in reality this can be more trouble than its worth. But even if I'm wrong on that legal point [which I may be] that certainly doesn't mean it justifies it. The law isn't everything. It just encompasses what is enforceable, not necessarily covering what is morally right. If you can't understand that, maybe you'd only understand it if the money was owed to you. Let's say the accounts department at your school sent out the wrong bill to all the parents and charged them all 99c. Subsequently the school went broke and you lost your job. How would you feel about it then?

"So ... you've never made an illegal free download of a song, album or video?"

No. I haven't. And nor is that relevant to discussing what is owed to our beloved CPod.

I must say I don't know what you mean by:

"Exactly my words to you"

...explain to me then what is right in this situation then?

I don't have to justify it for myself. The legal situation justifies it for me.

So ... you've never made an illegal free download of a song, album or video? If so you are most definitely part of a small minority. Everyone I work with says they have done it, and I even recall John and Dilu admitting to it in a Podcast. I wonder how many people have repaid record companies after a pang of guilt. Or is active theft less of a misdemeanour than passive acceptance of a 'bonus'.

And to the other person, I've seen your photos and yes, you most definitely lack the capacity to do as you desire.

so, what, you are actually going to say that you don't owe them because they made a billing error? you can justify that in your own mind?

"Won't change what's right mate, argue and justify as you please."

Exactly my words to you.

"But of course you knew that."

No. I'm not sure what comment you are referring to actually...but that's irrelevent. I quoted the bragging back at the begginning. Looking back at your comments, perhaps you mean this was your original comment:

"allowed me and doubtless hundreds (perhaps thousands?) of other users to pay 99 cents per month for 9 months"

...which is just in the same vein as the bit I just quoted.

"but you seem to be doing a lot of guesswork here. And believe me, you can't see inside my head"

...ok, what guesswork? And what is in your head? Is any of it going to change the fact that you seem to want to justify not paying what rightfully you should pay? What difference are words going to make? Won't change what's right mate, argue and justify as you please.

Read again, that was not my original comment. But of course you knew that.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be doing a lot of guesswork here. And believe me, you can't see inside my head.

I always admire your decent and tolerant nature, your willingness to engage with even objectionable folk. Myself I so often think that the chief and most galling disadvantage of communicating with strangers on the internet, is that when they turn out to be sneering and abusive anti-social little sh*ts, one lacks the capacity to administer the direct physical chastisement that they so richly deserve. Ah well, we live and learn. Respect, my friend.

Jenny,

Without condoning or condemning anyone's individual decision, maybe CPod lost some customer goodwill when it made the controversial decision to implement mandatory automatic recurring billing on customers' credit cards. Subscribers are charged for renewal automatically whether they want it or not, and it is up to them to remember to cancel. No refund after 30 days, if I recall the policy correctly. So maybe people felt that this was unethical on CPod's part, (taking advantage of subscriber error) with the result that when there was an error in the subscriber's favor they simply decided to go along.

As I pointed out in a post for you at the time, someone with a 2-year subscription who forgot that their initial subscription was coming to an end would be billed for another 2 years, and if they did not catch the mistake in 30 days they would be out of pocket for the price of a full 2 year subscription that they may not have wanted.

Also, I think CPod would enjoy more customer goodwill if users who were inconvenienced by the many unresolved technical glitches were somehow compensated, even if were only by extending their subscription for one week. Just a thought.

If I am wrong about any of the facts please except my apology in advance. I wish you all the best, and appreciate you taking some time out from your maternity leave to address user concerns.

why shouldn't they? There has been a lot of passionate sentiment expressed for CPod over the years. I'm sure those folk were all sincere.

As for bragging, your original comment:

"CPod is owed whatever they charged me. If they feel like giving me a discount every month then who am I to argue"

...I would call that bragging. You know perfectly well it was an error and not a discount, and are bragging because you think you got away with it, and are trying to rub their nose in their error. You owe them mate. I urge you to do the honest thing and cough up.

I'd be interested to know how many heed that call.

And Jenny, it wasn't bragging - look at my original comment. The rest was merely a defence of my stance.

Jenny,

wo yiding bugan dang [sorry, on a computer with no hanzi].

Sorry, I can't let it go that easily myself [but thanks for the great saying...hadn't struck that one but it's a ripper]. I realise that it's probably too difficult for you to chase it up yourself, and not worth the hassle, but it's not right, you are still owed the money, and I'd still like to appeal to all honest poddies [which I'm sure are nearly all] to check their billings, and if the mistake occured to them, they know they should pay back in an honour system. I have faith that the majority are honest and truly supportive of the site, know what's right, and have probably just not noticed. Wishing you and the team my very best. Cheers. :)

For us it's 吃一堑，长一智。It was our mistake. Baba, 你真是一个大好人！We deeply respect you.

Jenny,

I don't see why it should remain as a costly mistake. I'd like to put out the call for everyone to check their billings, and if they spot that they were charged 99c per month instead of $29 or whatever it was meant to be, then it should at least be paid back in an honour system.

Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe ...............

Was the thief given a receipt for $0 for the jewelry?

Not really a comparable example.

Even now on the payment page, there is no mention of the 99c reverting to $29 after the first month. So there is no legal recourse here.

The 99 cents offer loophole was a stupid error that should not have happened and gone on. It's fixed now. We appreciate users' honesty in not abusing it. To those who have, it's a costly mistake on our part and we appreciate it if you didn't brag about it.

Maybe the error didn't occur with others, or maybe if it did occur to other users the other users didn't notice it [ too busy studying chinese, to check their billings]. But anyhow, just because CPod made an error, doesn't make it charity, and doesn't mean they aren't still owed what ever the difference was between what the user knew the fee to be and what was actually paid. This is reminding me of a brief comment I heard on the news by a jewel theif [ who had posed as a customer at a jewellery store and asked to see the rings and then when was given them, did a runner] who said the jewellery store assistant should never have given him the rings...basically thought he could blame the shop assistant. I recall his words as being "she knows she shouldn't have done that". Here's the background story:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/police-waiting-for-alleged-diamond-thief-mark-watts-to-pass-jewels-after-he-swallowed-them-during-a-robbery/story-fnihsrf2-1226773723992

In the end though, that is only an opinion. The fact is that it DID take them nine months to discover the problem. So either CPod stupidly didn't respond to the issue or, more likely, no-one reported it for nine months.

"And the vast majority of people are 'honest' only in principle"

well I haven't lost my faith in humanity, so I can't agree with that, particularyl "vast majority". I particularly don't think the majority of users here wouldn't, on realising the billing error, do the honest thing and contact CPod, point it out and pay them what was owed. I hold this view particulary because I feel a vast majority of users are as enthusiastic about CPod as I am, are grateful for what they have done for us, the opportunities they've given us, and wouldn't want to rip off what many of us see as our friends, and wouldn't want to see them out of a job because of a billing error. Those who are so sad to see our beloved teachers leave, who sing their praise, would never do such a dishonest thing, [ I just don't believe they could be that insincere ] but on the contrary would want to support them as much as possible.

Implicit in your message is the fact that its not the pig that initiates the mud-wrestling. But yes, anyone who tackles this pig is going to end up dirty and then some.

Its not pride, its simply a lack of shame for something that is someone else's doing. I was merely a passive recipient of CPod's charity. Can you quote the part of my original message that exhibits pride?

Anyway thanks for the input Mike. Feel like getting dirty with me?

baba, you must know by now how proud bob is of being a first-rate abuser, both of the CPod system and other users. I was toying with the idea of taking him up on it, but as the saying goes if you mud-wrestle with a pig, the pig likes it and you just end up dirty.

CPod is owed whatever they charged me. If they feel like giving me a discount every month then who am I to argue. All of the receipts show a payment of $29 less a discount of $28.01 - they issued the receipt, so ....

They fixed the problem a few months ago, so there is no issue with pointing it out now.

And the vast majority of people are 'honest' only in principle.

but you've paid CPod back what they were owed right? And doubtless others have done the honest thing when they realised the error. But thanks for pointing it out for those who may have not realised.

The number of comments plummeted the moment they removed the 7 day free trial period. That was by far the biggest factor. For a number of years now I have been judging the frequency of comments by regularly looking at the date of the last comment on page 10 of the Community page (just a randomly chosen number). Back in 2009/10, this date was typically 15-18 days ago. That stayed pretty steady, but the moment the trial period was removed it blew out to high 20s. And I think that took the site under the 'critical mass' of comments needed to sustain continuous conversations. Because since then it has blown out further to typically 32-35, even getting to 42 recently. (It is currently artificially on 25 due to the pages of transcripts I added in one day over New Year).

On another note, I wonder what happened to the staff member(s) who allowed me and doubtless hundreds (perhaps thousands?) of other users to pay 99 cents per month for 9 months. What sort of company can go this long without noticing the shortfall in income?

In those days there was never (?) a lesson that had no comments from the user base - often there were dozens .... Now we often find a lesson that apparently engenders not a single comment for ages. To what do you attribute the change?

Ah, those were the days. Yes, bring back those never-ending Klingon discussions.

I'm afraid I have to agree with you, I think you probably speak for many. Back in the day there was plenty of warmth and fun, but certain folk would whine about 'drivel' and 'cliques', and indulge in silly sock-puppetry to bring about change, and so began the downward spiral. Sic transit gloria mundi, huh?

If only ChinesePod were an entity that could hear you.

In reality, you are talking to only one person.

Thanks for your wonderful teaching, Pete.

Pete was a fantastic teacher. He made Chinesepod interesting and lively. Miss you Pete. Thanks for your wonderful hing. NK Chew, Malaysia.

In the US, it is time to lawyer up.

哈哈哈, as I recall Kermit was only one of Pete's performances. I'm sure Bill Clinton, Captain Jean-Luc Picard and various others were on the bill too that day. I love Pete and still consider him a friend, but that was actually a tad OTT. But still, you gotta laugh I guess.

perhaps it is some sort of treasure hunt with hidden messages in the podcasts

那我们快去劳动仲裁！

Missed that one, thank you. Now I'm combing the expansion sentences for clues.

I am sad to say I missed Pete's Kermit review lesson. Does anyone have a copy for old times sake? :-)

I think more was explained in this lesson than you realize as Mark pointed out. Art imitating life in this case? The actors 8 year seniority a coincidence? See:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/labor-dispute#dialogue-tab

Perhaps we were left with a message. Remember when Pete left and his hidden goodbye was a review lesson all done in the voice of Kermit the frog. Quality control missed it of course because there is no QC, but it was quickly removed. I think they should have left it.

yes that is always possible and unfortunately too often the case, but I find it unlikely the aforementioned had their squid outright fried.

Thank you podster and I meant to write "I was not responding to your comment" just in case you misunderstood my answer wotingyu. Being laid off, putting food on the table and supporting a family is a universal concern. There is nothing fanciful or emotional about it. It happens.

I'm sure you did not mean your comment to sound as disrespectful as it does. ("overly emotional / unmoored "). Surely you admit to another possibility: that some people know more than you do.

I am not responding to your comment.

I personally didn't mean to imply they were thrown on the street (and anyone who does is probably being overly emotional or at the very least making unmoored conjecture)--I just meant that there must have been friction. In any case, my superficial understanding of Chinese labor law suggests that the longer your service for a company, the larger their severance payment to you will be.

Is David still with Chinese Pod? I noticed that his name is not included in the crew. He is very articulate and can talk up a storm. His Chinese is first rate.

Thanks for the info RJ.

We totally should have recorded a farewell podcast for Connie, Jiaojie and John. But they are still part of the CPod community and would come back for future projects. So all of us decided to not make this a farewell moment. Connie, Jiaojie and John chose to do something different with their careers and lives. We respect their decisions and do our best to help them transition. After so many years, they are like family. They are never gone.

Super glad to hear it, Jenny! Very sad about John, Connie, and Jiaojie - big changes! But, after subscribing for 4 years, I have every confidence that all the talented people still there will continue to produce high quality, compelling Chinese learning material! And congratulations on the birth of your second child! 恭喜恭喜！

"laying what concerns to rest?"

that Jenny is still around, that she'll be back and that the show goes on.

"The question was were Connie and Jiaojie really gone"

...this question had already been addressed by Vera on January 8 and brought to the rest of our attention on this thread before Jenny came on, so I didn't think that was the question any longer.

laying what concerns to rest? The question was were Connie and Jiaojie really gone, and she said yes. Read carefully. Nowhere did she say they left voluntarily or would be replaced. Jenny has become quite the spin doctor. So there are cut backs. Maybe a problem maybe not, but it aint expansion either. If I were them I would drop Qing Wen and let the "New Crew" concentrate on lessons. There are enough QW's in the bank. The new customers have it great. Lots of new material for years to come. For a company whose major assets are short term customers, they should treat them better. Things could go south real quick. The cpod paradox for me has always been, great material but no quality control, no transparency, poor IT support, spotty responsiveness, and contempt for their potential fan base.

I agree, they've had "news and features" podcasts in recent years for the departure of greg and jason who hadn't been at chinesepod for half as long as John, Connie and Jiaojie. I believe they deserve a podcast recognizing their long and significant role at chinesepod as a formal farewell.

Thanks Jenny for the clarification. All along, the Chinesepod team has been really excellent. Their lessons are well selected and have very high quality, especially with the presence of you, John, Ken, Connie, Pete and Liliana. But the fact is people come and go, and we have no choice but to learn from new teachers. I have to thank you, John, Ken, Connie, Pete and Liliana from the bottom of my heart - all of you are wonderful teachers, and I have learnt a lot from all of you. I miss John, Ken, Connie, Pete and Liliana too!!

I will continue subscribing to Chinesepod - there are so many fantastic lessons in the archive. I am sure we will have new and good teachers too.

NK Chew, Malaysia.

I dont believe Hank has been CEO of cpod since they sold it to bigfoot ventures in 2012. He and Jenny started Open Language. John's departure was not a surprise either since he made it clear in 2010 when he started AllSet Learning, that he planned to eventually make that his full time job. We were lucky to keep him this long.

remember this:

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/12618

When Amber and Pete left (on their own terms) there were proper announcements and also videos in which the remaining staff individually thanked the people leaving and wished them well in their future endeavours. Why the lack of such pleasantries this time? Surely Connie and Jiaojie wouldn't just leave after so many years without saying goodbye and adding a few words about their new career path? Are they free to post here if they choose?

Congratulations Jenny! Is your second baby a boy or a girl?

Glad that you are still around. Is Hank still Chinese Pod's CEO.

Nice to read you, Jenny ! And congratulations for the baby.

Jenny,

Firstly, 恭喜恭喜你们阿！ I hope you are both well, rested, and enjoying this special time.

Yes, amazing there has been such loyalty and longevity. Great to hear there are plenty of lessons in store with the new crew and thanks for laying our concerns to rest. 加油 ！！ ：）

Thank you Jiaojie and Connie for all the wonderful lessons you hosted and for the help on the discussion boards. I hope you'll both find/have great new jobs!

JiaoJie, I love your writing style. It is crisp, direct and very effective as a teaching method. You have a very good grasp of the Chinese grammar and you are very clear and thorough in answering questions. With the Chinese 普通话 still evolving, you have a great future in the teaching field and perhaps writing books (grammar and story) in teaching English to non English speakers?

Please drop me a line when you are not too busy. Good luck!

Thanks a lot Jiao Jie for your wonderful teaching. i learned a lot from you. NK Chew, Malaysia.

Glad to see the ninjas haven't got you Jiaojie. Thanks for all the great lessons and helpful answers. All the best and Happy New Year!

Creativity alright. So much great work, but love tangle series is the first that jumps to mind. Masterful. Thanks for everything Jiaojie. Wishing you all the very best!!

Jiaojie,

Never met you in person, but I'm sure I benefited tremendously from your creativity. 一定会想你和Connie。 非常感谢。

谢谢！Adios！

I'd like to add my thanks and appreciation to Connie and Jiaojie, you were both wonderful teachers and creators, you played such a huge part in making Chinesepod special. I wish you all the best for the future.

sure Mark. I don't think anyone here has slighted anyone. Totally relate to:

" I only keep poking at the bamboo curtain, because the personalities involved have been a daily part of my life for years, now, and I'm curious how their lives are unfolding"

...and nicely put. I think we all feel the same. My broader concern is comments that might imply the ship is going down. I'm not so worried about loyal old subscribers like yourself or others posting here, but CPod has said in the past the bulk of their subscriptions come from newbies, and so I'm concerned about the effect on those who is new to the site, who are contemplating subscribing, don't know how great CPod is, but then strikes a pessimistic post about CPod's future and then it becomes a fait accompli

I don't really know anything, but to misquote Aristotle, a bit, "speculation abhors a vacuum". BTW, I don't mean to slight anyone who may still working at CPod. David never ceases to amaze me with his varied talents. Vera, Dilu, Tom and Greg are all interesting and talented hosts. Personally, as long as there are new high quality lessons being produced, I'm happy to keep subscribing to CPod. I only keep poking at the bamboo curtain, because the personalities involved have been a daily part of my life for years, now, and I'm curious how their lives are unfolding. It would also be reassuring, if someone came out and said, "Hey, don't worry. I'm still here."

wow, no more connie either? that seems almost even more depressing. She was the backbone of 请问 and Chinesepod from the beginning. I'm so sorry to hear that and wish them nothing but the best in the future.

Way back when I used to do the exercises, I used to always read so much into them which was usually fun stuff. Oh man, I hope that this isn't something we should be reading into, that it didn't end badly for them and that this is their way of venting [ but it would give an authenticity to the language, and if one is muzzled, I kinda like this way of getting around the muzzling and speaking to the masses]

oh, thanks for the link toianw....I hadn't seen that, not had the chance to follow things closely for some time. Well Connie and Jiaojie will both be sorely missed also. Thanks to both of them for everything. Both great teachers and personalities. Wishing them both all the best.

Hey Mark, I also wondered about this line from the expansion for Building a Snowman, possibly the follow-up to yours:

今天先下班，明天继续做。

I get a feeling that this is the only way we can hear what goes on.

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/%E6%AF%94%E7%89%B9%E5%B8%81#comment-266919

Baba,

youre right. Its all speculation and I dont know where the original rumor came from, but, Connie and Jiaojie are MIA, and I doubt they are both on vac now with the holiday vac coming up on the 31st. If they werent gone surely they would have commented, "I am still here". Having said that, I would love to be wrong.

RJ,

I'm glad you did get my meaning because you did pick me up on my bad wording, so thanks for acknowledging that. Yeah, I have no idea if there will be replacements. Others seem to have a lot better idea than I do, but other than John, I personally have no idea if anyone else has left recently. I personally have no idea if it is downsizing as you suggest, or if it is only John who has left and this was a natural progression as he has made an enormous achievement here and now has his business to pursue. But yeah, I mainly meant to say that we should give the remaining talented staff [ who have given us so much ] as much encouragement and support as possible [ in what as you suggest, may be difficult times for them] and if there were replacements, give them a decent shot too.

As I've said, I've no idea what is going on, but if there was downsizing going on then I couldn't agree more with your statement:

"The impact on our lives pales in comparison to the challenges facing those that must find new employment"

...and yes, if that is the case I certainly do nothing but wish them the very best.

I also think it's best that folk stick to facts, known facts [and showing where they got them from so it is substantiated]...I don't mind the questions, but rumours and speculation can't be helpful to the overall cause here.

RJ, your words kind of put a new interpretation to the recent lesson on labor disputes, especially, this line: 你更让我失望。我们努力工作了八年，我们得到了什么？

btw Baba, I did get your meaning. There are still many very talented people left to carry the torch, and we should not discourage them. As for those impacted.... an old boss of mine once told me that 2 years after the fact, most will view job loss as the best thing that ever happened to them, and they will end up better off than they were before. At the time, I wanted to hit him, but there is a lot of truth in that statement. Necessity is the mother of getting off one's ass and building something new. I only hope its easier to find a job in China than it is currently in the US. I wish those folks the best and they should know that we all appreciate their hard work and wonderful efforts over the past few years. An amazing group of people, and an amazing body of work. They should be very proud of what they have done. My heartfelt thanks to all of them, and I wish them all the best of luck and the brightest of futures.

Replacements? They dont call it downsizing for nothing, or "rightsizing" when they really want to insult you. Such contentious separations usually come with "non-disclosure" agreements on both sides, for PR and legal reasons. The current silence says it all. I only hope those affected can find equal or better opportunities elsewhere. The impact on our lives pales in comparison to the challenges facing those that must find new employment. Crying in your beer is not going to help. Business is business.

Although I went to the old factory I had not seen this video!

I agree, and Dilu is among the very best hosts, all-time. So, that gives me some hope.

Trip down memory lane: (CPod back in 2008)

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjUxNjAwMTY=.html

or

http://www.vimeo.com/931429/l:embed_931429

+ 1. You tell exactly what I'm feeling, my friend. Yes, they will be missed but we still have a very nice and talented team of teachers.

bababardwan,

Couldn't agree more. No reason to break their rice bowl.

神马都是浮云

The lack of information about changes at chinesepod recently is what bothers me. We're paying subscribers so they should at least inform us about what is going on.

When Ken "left" CPod was still I think a lively place where views and info were (comparatively) openly exchanged. (I recall Jenny herself making an appearance on the forum to reassure everyone that CPod would not be disappearing anytime soon.)

That [kind of openness] has not been the case for some time now. CPod seems to basically treat its customers and supporters with contempt, I strongly suspect the way they treat their employees is not that much different.

I noted the recent dismantling of Englishpod (run by the same company), and to be honest I suspect that our beloved pod may be in the tertiary stage of illness. As no form of reassurance or explanation is ever forthcoming, what is one to think?

Chris, There has not been any formal announcement about anything. Hence the other users' comments about transparency and the various inquiries.

I noticed that we had not seen you as much as we used to. Maybe that's the real reason why people worried that ChinesePod's salad days were over. 囧

I've not managed to spend much time on the site over the last year (having probably spent too much time on it the previous few years!). Seems a lot's happened since I've been away. I saw the news about John a couple of weeks back, but hadn't realised Jenny had left as well. When did that happen?

Seems a bit harsh. CPod was founded and owned by non-Chinese, and China certainly does not have a monopoly on corporate opacity or poor customer service.

Well the Chinesepod experience brings us into Chinese culture in more ways than one

I think the issue for me this time is that ONLY the long-term staff members are leaving. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but wouldn't they be the staff members with the largest salaries, hence offering the biggest opportunities for cost cutting? Its just got me worried that CPod might be in some kind of financial strife. Didn't all the big names who left before this leave on their own terms? We also don't know if there might be other behind-the-scenes team members who might have been shown the door.

I know this is only conjecture, so I'll assume that if I am wrong then someone from CPod will correct me.

O I C said the blind man.

pretz,

"get to my broader point"

..sure, I was mostly in agreement with you mate...just didn't comment as I've already expressed myself below. I think there has always been speculation in the past on the boards when big name/s leave. eg Amber's leaving. But CPod marched on. Let's hope CPod continues to evolve and improve. 加油CPod ！

baba, fair enough, but then get to my broader point. Customer facing people have been leaving Cpod for YEARS! what is the big deal at this point?

again, let me add Vera by name to the David/Greg/Dilu mix, since she's been good about answering our questions online.

pretz,

I'm only just catching up with this myself, but toianw has posted this link below:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/%E6%AF%94%E7%89%B9%E5%B8%81#comment-266919

You might be reading the tea leaves correctly. Ultimately, I have limited insight into Cpod staffing changes/Cpod internal management issues, as I assume do you and everyone else here.

I guess if I back up a bit, my real question was, "what's driving all this 'where's Jenny/John/Ken" questioning NOW? I'm not the longest person posting here, but when I started subscribing back in May 2008 or so, Jenny was regularly (maybe daily?) posting and interacting with us subscribers. She hasn't really done that since maybe summer of 2009 or so. Now, she seems to make 1 or 2 posts per quarter, and when she does, she doesn't really interact with people who ask her questions (at least not publicly). Ken left around 2009-2010 or so. I guess I don't need to mention how long its been since Clay, Amber and others left. Certainly, it's been years. Now here it is January 2014 as I type this.

Even if Connie hasn't posted in awhile, or made a podcast in awhile, I 'm not sure what that means either way. Hopefully she's not dead :-), but maybe she's doing a different job within Cpod to career broaden. I don't know that Cpod should start letting us know such things as staffing changes (although it would have been nice if they had!). But again, what's driving this 'people are leaving now'? John's the only one that even partly communicated this, but even then, under the covers, John appeared to me to be part-time anyway because he had started AllSetLearning some years ago.

BTW, I wonder what David/Greg/Dilu etc feel like when they see all this "Jenny/John/Ken type are leaving cpod!!" postings.

"Connie and Vera are going to be our friendly faces to interact with."

But it seems Connie might have gone too. She hasn't been on Qingwen for the last three weeks and (correct me if I'm wrong) she hasn't missed a Qingwen before. She also hasn't made a post for 18 days ... and perhaps someone could check her final post - am I misreading it?

my take is that all companies have employees come and go all the time without major announcements. Chinesepod is the same in that regard. Interestingly, Chinesepod's start as a customer facing organization with support on the boards for language learning meant that staff were clear and present in a way that bred familiarity and friendliness. Cpod appears to be moving away from the importance of language learning on these boards. So there's not likely to be a chance to get more friendly with another of the staff.

Since Jenny's part of senior management, she's likely still around and occupying herself with growing OpenLanguage revenue, as well has her other learning ventures. Posting on the boards in response to subscriber issues is likely not a top 3 concern for her at this point. Connie and Vera are going to be our friendly faces to interact with (and they do a good job!).

人艰不拆嘛。

ChinesePod has never been transparent about staff changes, or other changes to their operation. I think we aren't supposed to embarrass them by asking, but my American culture runs too deep. So, I want to know, anyway.

yea they seem to be keeping all the poddies in the dark about changes in staff. I would think especially with John leaving that they would do a "news and features" podcast about it. He was such a huge part of Chinesepod. It doesn't seem right for chinesepod not to honor him in some way.