If your significant other is Chinese, why are you learning Mandarin?

嗯，我头脑很简单！

I'd be happy to put this notion in your wife's head if you like. 　（＾ｖ＾）

Ah, if only life were so simple.

Yes, I bet it would. I'd also like to learn Chinese to be able to communicate with my future mother-in-law who cannot speak English at all. ;-)

It would definitely pay back. I'm sure your wife, as loving and patient as she probably is, would grow tired of always being the translator. I think you are on the right path. Good luck with your studies!

hehe,good comment. Yep, we've been trying this English thing for a long time now, lets both learn a new language and see if we can communicate any better in it.

I'd like to be able to communicate better with my Wife and we're both natively english and have been married for 22 years!

Inter gender communication is never going to be easy, on either side, but by learning her language at least you can participate in all of the discussion!

:-)

This is totally my dream too!

"Still, all that said, I couldn't imagine not learning my spouse's native language. Language is such an integral part of who we are... why wouldn't you want to share that with someone you love?"

I totally agree!

I hope someday my wife and I can operate almost equally as well in an English or Chinese environments.

哈哈，你应该试试说: 出去。

I did that one over and over trying to make them sound different, performing tongue acrobatics from the back to the front in doing so. I think I have that one now :-)

trevorb... i totally know how you feel. Sometimes i practice by and to myself the different tones and I have a hard time distinguishing them, really. In my native asian language which is very similar to english in terms of sentence construction, etc, we don't have very particular tones. Tones for us depend on the mood of the person. I could be saying "happy" in as many different varied tones as i can and people would still understand me. I do the same thing in Mandarin and nobody will understand me.

Until now... i still can't quite pronounce 去 correctly consistently and I've been trying for more than a year now. My fiance always laughs at me for this.

I think this is true too, about the novelty and just not being exposed to foreigner (English-speaking variation, Japanese variation 等等，都有吧) variation.

The funny thing is that there is plenty of variation in pronunciation in China. In fact, a lot of Chinese people are proud of their standard pronunciation, which implicitly says that speaking standard Mandarin is not the norm. I think it partly has something to do with the fact that while there are lots of variation in pronunciation in China, many Chinese people are only sensitive to hearing "improper" pronunciation in a Chinese way, i.e. foreigners speaking Chinese with their respective accents is still novel for many of them. While in English, we hear just about every accent under the sun, and are so are less sensitive to variation. Anyway, just theorizing...

"Which I'd liken to trying to learn how to drive from your dad/mum/significant other" haha, good analogy.

I have to agree with all that people have said here. To add my own experience, my wife never learned han yu pin yin when she was younger and can't really explain the tones correctly to me. There's also the patience thing, which I'd liken to trying to learn how to drive from your dad/mum/significant other.

On the flip side, I took a Chinese class and was able to learn more from my teacher who was very very VERY patient with her students when correcting their tone mistakes.

So yeah, I do think it takes a lot of extra skills to be an effective teacher. ChinesePod is really put together by some phenomenal teachers in that sense!

xiao liang: I know what you mean with the fang feng thing. I find it really hard to get the difference.

Where I encouter it is 长城 I sit there trying to make them sound differnet but somehow they always sound really similar to me....! When saying ang's I find I'm either too close to an 'eng' or to close to an 'ong'! I suspect only practice and lots of embarrassment gets you there in the end

Teachers have to be(come) good at that; also some people are just more gifted at it I think. And some people pick up the skill very fast. It was interesting to see with the two fourth-grade boys from Hangzhou staying at my friend's in Tokyo on a school exchange. Of the two, the very social, gregarious one was initially very quick to pick up what I meant while his buddy looked pretty much lost, whenever I spoke to them in my terrible Chinese. At one point early on the outgoing boy turned to the more quiet, thoughtful one and said in mock exasperation, shape up you! where would you be without me, I'm translating everything for you! His buddy though (they were both bright kids, but the quiet one was especially so), you could tell, if they'd had longer to stay, would end up understanding me better and more consistently. The outgoing one was a good guesser of the message from context (in his case it was his social skills he was drawing on), but the quiet one after two days was starting to understand my mistakes; I'm sure he could have begun correcting me with a little more time. They were only with us three days. Really too bad my Chinese didn't dramatically improve as fast as kids adapt.

With your example, I think when the mistake is in the first syllable of a noun (so many possibilities too, with nouns), rather than the end of a phrase, it might be a bit tougher on the listener to guess what is being said. But yeah Chinese is definitely much more unforgiving in terms of not being understood because of vowels or syllables you fail to pronounce correctly. And tones of course.

You know, I was thinking about this some more, I think the real problem is that teaching in Chinese requires a special skill. How many times have you been faced with the case where you've gotten something wrong in Chinese, and your conversation partner just stares blankly, no idea what you've said.

For example, in english, if my girlfriend makes a mistake, I recognise it, and correct. E.g. today she said in relation to someone she used to know "we used to be really closed". She meant "close" - the words sound similar, so I recognised what was different and could understand.

Yet, in Chinese, the other day, I was trying to say, "我们需要防晒霜" - we need sunscreen. But instead of "fáng shài shuāng", I said "féng shài shuāng". That's not that different really, but there's something about speaking chinese, with its similar tones and sounds, that means words have some kind of lexical coding in people's brains that totally separates them. She had no idea what I meant, and I eventually had to resort to english, at which point she said, "oh! you mean FANG2 shài shuāng! So frustrating!

long explanation, but I think the ability to separate sounds and logically work out what the foreign speaker means is something that teachers learn. Not just any chinese person can do it.

Actually, I've been thinking that it's better off in the end. I would see many problems/fights, etc. with your spouse teaching you.

Yes, and of course we probably should be able to understand why they want to spend time with us being our bf/gf/husbands/wives and not our teachers.

Well I guess it doesn't help they're not trained teachers. My girlfriend tries to teach me, she really does. She once spent ages writing a lesson for me, but it was so complex, I was instantly lost. I think it's exceptionally difficult to teach someone you're emotionally close to.

Haha, my wife won't teach me anything either. She will talk to me, but if I start to ask questions, she will say 烦死了! Therefore, it is up to me to learn Chinese on my own and then practice with her. It is kind of funny. People often say, oh, your wife is Chinese; your Chinese must be good. My reply is always something like, well it is a benefit, but perhaps not as beneficial as you might believe.

Good to know i'm not the only one then.

I started to try it out a couple of weeks ago. The reason for it being Tuedays was because we are both at work for most the day so I thought it would be best to introduce it slowly at first. Eventually I want to take it to a Saturday where we will be doing more varied activities but one step at a time eh?

It started of better than I thought it would to be honest. She obviously had a bit of fun trying to break the rules but I found that becoming a bit childish helped. If she said anything to me in English, I would just ignore it or say 中文星期二! Then just repeat that until she caved in and said something back in Chinese.

hamshank,

I feel very similar to you. My wife has no patience to teach. Actually, I get my mother-in-law to come to our house and we study together an hour a week. I'm also thinking of doing something along the lines of your "Chinese Tuesdays". I'm going to break it to her soon. Let me know how you get along with it.

Haha good story, perhaps Darwin just left that particular woman behind.

In Taiwan I find it that everyone will speak Chinese to you if you show the slightest inkling that you know a word or two. Sometimes all it takes is a basic 點二號 and they will strike up a conversation with you.

I go to the gym every morning before work and take a bus to get there. There was one man who was interested why a foreigner was up at 6 in morning going for a bus (must be a rare sight or something ;)) Anyway, he politely asked me in English about it...I then replied very slowly with appalling pronunciation 我去健身房 and ever since he will always talk to me in the morning in Chinese which is nice.

Ironically, it's only my misses that doesn't like to speak Chinese with me. I don't think she has the patience to teach and always says that I ask really weird questions that she has never thought about. In an attempt to change that, I'm trying to introduce Chinese Tuesday's where we can only speak Chinese to each other all day even if I can't understand what is going on.

Haha, no--it's true for Americans as well. The funny thing is, my wife does think that English is good enough for pretty much everywhere, but I am sensitive to the fact that not everyone knows or wants to speak English. I have heard that for some French this is a particular annoyance, so when we went to France, I tried my hardest to ask questions as best as I could in French, no matter how broken. My wife didn't care... she went up to any French person and started asking them lots of complicated questions in English. She often got back a baffled look along with a bunch of French that we couldn't understand, but she kept trying

The thing I can't get used to is that some people in China don't seem to think foreigners should or even are able to speak Chinese. (Many Americans are annoyed by people who live in our country who don't make an effort to learn English.) There have been many times where Chinese people seem to not really understand that I can communicate in Mandarin, perhaps much better than they can speak English. I sent one woman several emails in Chinese trying to imply that I would like to speak in Chinese with her because every time I spoke to her in Chinese, she replied in English. Then one time she was talking to another person in Chinese. I merely said 我同意. She said, "You can understand what we said???"

I'm curious if it is the same in Taiwan? I think you implied that your level is a bit lower, but perhaps you got a feel for the attitude Taiwanese have toward foreigners speaking their language.

Jemileah, I wish I had your problem.

I can see how that is frustrating, but at the very least, you will have more opportunities to talk than most of us. I think you will see that as an advantage later on. At any rate, congrats on being engaged!

Well.... yes they do - and that becomes a problem sometimes. You see, when they start asking me 小姐。。。 then I say 什么 then they will go on and on and I will not understand anything except for a few words here and there. I learned from that and since I'm not yet that confident engaging strangers in Chinese conversations to which I cannot reply, I just politely say I don't understand.

And yes, it surprises them when I do that because I do look Chinese (I'm Asian and I actually have little chinese blood but never grew up in any chinese background).

If everyone mistakes you for being Chinese, I assume you are of Asian ancestry? If so, at least in the realm of learning Chinese, you have an advantage--Chinese people will typically talk to you in Chinese.

Yes, I also often come across people who refuse to talk to me in their native language. In Hong Kong this is mainly an issue at work and in business, expat and tourist areas. If I speak Cantonese or Mandarin there, people give me strange looks and reply in English. However, this almost never happens in the more "local" areas.

Yes, I don't have too much extra time for study. I love cpod and envy you guys because there is nothing close to a cantonesepod.

Then do you come to CPod more for building up knowledge of Chinese characters, or are you trying to keep up your Mandarin while studying Cantonese?

sebastian,

Yea, I started out full blast with Mandarin because everyone told me it was useless to study and I should study Mandarin. I married a local girl a few years ago. Although she speaks good English her parents don't speak a word.

Since then I have devoted the majority of my time on Cantonese.

Wow, HSK 7... that's really good. I managed a level 6 twice. I can relate to only speaking to the wife. I sometimes talk to other people in Chinese, but usually not in depth. Just basic small talk stuff or store and restaurant language. As I have mentioned in my comments to Tal and Hamshank here, I find that many Chinese just refuse to talk to me in their language. I'm wondering if you get the same thing?

I can relate to Mandarin not cutting it just a bit. My wife is from a city where they don't get many 外地人, so they really don't feel comfortable or can't speak Mandarin well. I plan on nailing down some basic vocabulary just for them because I Spring Festival is a long time when nobody speaks a language around you that you can speak.

Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me either, but I suppose learning (and becoming fluent) in Chinese is one of those things that is easier said than done.

You are not qualified! Go! (Just kidding, of course.) I'm also surprised at how many foreign guys don't bother to learn much Chinese. I have even met some that are proud that they don't know any Chinese. I don't really have the right to judge if another person is doing his wife/girlfriend wrong by not learning her language, but gosh, it just doesn't make sense to me.

That's just how it is! In Shantou most Chinese people you meet will assume that you don't speak Chinese. In restaurants and public places people will talk to the spouse in Chinese, or (a particular irk for foreigners here), the local dialect. You have to make the running though, you've gotta do like we tell the kids and just forget about 'losing face' - lol. Oh and get used to saying 过奖了 about a million times!

I've taken to interrupting such exchanges with a direct question or two, you know just the usual stuff: what part of China are you from, do you have kids, have you eaten, etc. Get them talking to you, and even if you don't catch every word it's a helluva 口语 workout!

I'm glad you answered Tal. I'm curious, do you have a similar problem as me, namely that when you are with your wife, many Chinese will talk in Mandarin with your wife as if you aren't there? I blame myself partially as I should know that I should have to work harder to include myself in a conversation in a language that I don't yet feel 100% comfortable in, but I am surprised at how Chinese sense of etiquette often doesn't seem to require including everyone present in a conversation. (Perhaps it is the old shy thing going on.) I only became fully conscious of what was going on here when an old American Chinese couple talked with us and made a decent attempt to keep me in the conversation flow.