Placement Tests and Level Tests

Personally, I think the inherent issue isn't with pinyin, but with taking a Chinese "proficiency test" using all pinyin. I think it'd be okay to use at lower levels (Newbie and Elementary) as long as it is accompanied by characters (like others here have mentioned). I think once you get to Intermediate and beyond, it's a lot more difficult to learn this language using pinyin only, and I believe that proficiency tests at the upper levels should be hanzi only (just my opinion, I know many will disagree).

And I think it's nearly impossible to input pinyin accurately for testing purposes, for many reasons (easy to make typos, use spaces or not with word groups?, tone change confusion, capitalization or not?, etc.). Perhaps Cpod could have a link at the top of all Pinyin-based tests, describing in detail the standard rules of pinyin and how best to adhere to those while taking these tests.

paulinurus, actually I don't care that much... it is only a computer programm not a teacher or a Chinese I hope to understand/talk to...

If you look at your test result paper and you see most of your sentences should be marked 'right' because they ARE right (only marked wrong because of pinyin settings) just be happy: You answered very good and you learned a lot by taking the test: seeing where you could not write any answer and seeing where you are absolutely sure you know better than the computer.

I did not do the pin yin test, but using characters the tests work well..and showed me that I really have to study more vocabs if I want to take that step from Elem. to Interm.!

I am writing as much as I know in the dictation part, also if I don't understand some words. Of course the programm will give me a 'wrong' for the whole question..but for myself I know at least the first part of the sentence was perfect :)... and if it would not be a stupid computer correcting my results, but a real teacher he/she would recognize!

I wrote I was frustrated by MY results...I saw all my mistakes and what I should have known, and what I am missing... but it is fun to do the tests!

Don't be frustrated about the fact that this programm is giving you a wrong number of ..% right questions! A number given by a computer will never express what you really know anyway!

:-) 格桑

@Simon

Just a point about ge4, the default measure word. It is often used in conversation without the noun it refers to; if so, the fourth tone is used. Even when used with the noun.. hm, I would say from experience that it is usually fourth tone. I am learning to use it more forcefully. More experienced speakers, I am happy to be contradicted. (And I don't want to lead anyone astray.)

simonpettersson,

all i can say is love for academic theory is quite a distance away from day to day practicality... take the two tests then tell us how you fared. And too, I've just given examples taken from the sentences in the lesson itself. Good luck in writing pinyin from the Expansion Sentences audio.

Looks like I might be in Gesang's company... a (forever?) Newbie at Cpod.

Paulinurus: Those all sound correct to me. bu4 is written as bu4 in pinyin, regardless of the tone after. It's rarely used as a full fourth tone in "X bu X" constructions, and "ge4" is usually uttered with a neutral tone, when used as a measure word. Also, reduplication, like "kàn kan" always has a neutral tone on the second syllable, though I might have written it without the space.

However, using a neutral tone or not varies a bit in actual usage. I haven't done the test, so I don't know how it works, but if the technology can support multiple correct answers, I'm guessing that'd be ideal.

John,

Here are the neutral tones in compound words taken just from one lesson - Computer Problems And Tech Support

yǒushíhou – hou4 is 4th tone unless what?.

dǎ bu kāi, dòng bu liǎo – bu4 is 4th tone except when this and what?

nǐ shì bu shì dǎkāi le hěn duō? – shouldn’t “bu” be 2nd tone before a 4th tone, however in this Cpod sentence it is a neutral tone.

bùhuì a, jiù liǎng ge. yí, shǔbiāo yě dòng bu liǎo le. – In this sentence, ge is neutral instead of 4th tone, and bu is neutral before a 3rd tone

nǐ jiào jìshùbù de rén bāng nǐ kàn kan ba. In this sentence, one kan is 4th tone, the other is neutral.

nà nǐ kěnéng zhòngdú le. xiān shā sha dú. – One sha is 1st tone, following one is neutral. Is this the rule?

tiān a, jiǔ bǎi ge bìngdú! ài, zhēnshì fú le nǐ le.- Shouldn’t ge be 4th tone?

As for getting different results between Placement Test and Level Test, let’s hear from more poddies who have taken the 20 questions tests a few times. Did you find yourself repeatedly in Newbie placement even though you had above 50% scores in Elementary or Intermediate?

Paulinurus,

I'm surprised to hear you say "Cpod's pinyin is non-standardized". We are aware of the rules of pinyin and adhere to them as best we can, particularly with regards to tone changes (a stance I sometimes have to defend because it makes some learners unhappy). I think you may be referring to a different problem: variation in the language itself. Then it's an issue of whether or not we expose students to such variation, and how early.

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about re: neutral tones in compound words. Can you give examples? If we're wrong or being inconsistent anywhere, we'll fix it ASAP!

You're also the first to report that the placement results you're getting are inconsistent. I've heard back from a variety of testers which say they find it both accurate and consistent (Henning being one of them). I wonder if this could be a data issue, or perhaps the result of just random selection (t's possible that you could get a random selection of relatively easy or relatively difficult questions, but the chances of this go down the longer the test type)?

I have taken the Placement tests about 6 times now (1 long, 5 short tests). My results are pretty stable in the Upper Intermediate spectrum. But I never even tried the Pinyin version - I just used Hanzi.

If it makes you feel any better, I would have selected 美国人 for question #4.

Danke, henning.
I'll check with mdbg a lot more in the future.

Hi frognotinawall,

the measure word for 裤子 is 条 (also see: mdbg).

go_manly,

Unfortunately, there's no good way to do it right now. Certain things, like blank questions/answers can be identified programmatically. We have already done this, but it appears the script we used wasn't thorough enough. We'll keep refining the data and working on more efficient ways to do it.

Thanks John.That's really cool.I was in a rush at the time and didn't have time to look for a solution like that but it's great to now know it's possible. :)

The test saves your answers anytime you click on a button at the bottom of the page (either "Next" or "Save"). So if you're on the last page, I think it would work to click on the little "back" arrow. I'll have to check this.

Hey,I've just started to check out the blog and came across this partial answer to my question:

"Partial saving of the test, just in case you get interrupted (answers are saved when you go to the next page of the test)"

..so the question remains ..how would I have saved where I was up to?..was there something I needed to do or if I'd just exited outta there would it have automatically saved it [actually it sounds like this automatically occurs ]..and by partial you mean you can just save at the end of page one or the end of page two? ..what happens if you shut down part way through a page?

Have you tried getting your computer IME (input method editor) to convert to pinyin tone marks? IBus for Linux can handle this easily, and I think there's Pinyinput for Windows (which I think you can find by searching the chinese-forums forums). There's also a Mac equivalent.

Have a look here for more info (I think there's a Microsoft Pinyin IME as well...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_input_methods_for_computers

Oh, oh... I was already frustrated about the result of my Ele-Level test...with character-writing questions I'll be definitely back to Newbie for the rest of the year ;-)...

When someone ask me how many characters I am able to write, my answer is usually: 'Well, when typing on a computer it is definitely more...'

But I think it is a good idea though - a motivation...

Could you tell me what version of IE8? We tested IE8 in house and do not get this issue.

Thanks!

John, I was seeing a little vertical pile of the characters along the left margin for each answer (failing to line up horizontally is how it looked). I'm using IE8 too btw.

John, same problem here: the characters in the dictation test line up vertically instead of horizontally.

zhenlijiang,

What was the problem displaying the Dictation answers? The correct answers just didn't display? That's an issue I haven't seen before.

Duh. The Multiple Choice, both portions are showing up in entirety. I wasn't looking carefully. Still seems to be a problem displaying the Dictation answers though, in the Graded Virtual Test Paper.

OK so I've taken the Placement Test now and was placed Upper Inter. I'm not updating my profile though, not as long as Intermediate lessons remain challenging enough for me. I'll just have to push myself to go through the lessons more quickly than last year and start doing more Upper Inters.

By the way I scored exactly the same (percentage) in the Intermediate-level questions in this Placement Test as in the Level Test (Intermediate) that I took earlier. Consistent test results.

While C is correct, it's less likely than A, because it would be saying "he/she is not allowed to meet you," which is kind of strange. Sounds kind of like the parents of a girl telling her bad-boy boyfriend that their daughter is no longer permitted to see him. Possible, bot unlikely.

Our team has had to go over the multiple choice sections of over 1300 lessons' randomly generated exercises, eliminating "extra correct answers." While they do good work, there may be a few slip-ups.

Seems to me that both A and C are correct in number one. In number two, "tā huílái" and "tā chūqù" seem to both need a "le" to be correct. I guess you could say "ta huílái", but that would be the equivalent of saying "He returns. Please wait a moment". Technically correct, but unnatural.