The Activity Feed

hankfdh and zhenlijiang,

Thanks for explaining this.That sounds like a better solution,than what I mistakenly thought it was.

@zhenlijiang,

Yes, that is correct. Your Activity Stream lists all messages at the selected level and all your own previous messages. Other people do not see your previous messages at other levels.

hi bababardwan,

The funny thing was that the comments I made on the Ellie Activity Feed migrated with me and now seem somewhat out of place.I'd be inclined to leave comments where they are made.

it seems this is not an issue (our "migrated comments" are visible only to us?), but perhaps someone from Cpod could confirm for us.

It's great there is some sort of 'marking' tool but as far as I can tell, it only marks the answers to the prefixed questions. That's going to leave out a lot of activities.

Goulnik:
It just warns us other learners of possibly contagious errors. Restricted area. None of us will go there. We stay in the green zone.

C.f. Hank's post above:

Our teachers now have a 'marking' function. If the target language text is correct the background will be green. If it is incorrect the background will be red.

Very helpful if you ask me.

as tarcy mentioned on the actifeed, one of my posts appears on a pink background. any idea what it means? am I already flagged as making trouble or something?

user deleted

@hankfdh

Thank you for your answer and fixing RSS feed.

Now I can see RSS feed on Google Reader.

Four new updates:

1. line breaks added between the question and the answer text
2. RSS feed can now be viewed in Google Reader
3. Our teachers now have a 'marking' function. If the target language text is correct the background will be green. If it is incorrect the background will be red.
4. There is a new tone converter button. Now you can enter text like 'ni3 hao3', click on the 'Convert to Tone Marks' button and it will change the text to 'nǐ hǎo'.

Thanks John,

I had the same thought but have been unable to find anywhere in excel to set the coding. I use excel for chinese characters in other applications no problem. I will do some experiments based on your comments. Oh, and you can delete my post (above) if you like, I didnt expect it to expand like that.

RJ,

How are you opening the CSV? MS Excel has a known bug; it doesn't default to UTF-8 and doesn't handle it correctly. (I hear this has something to do with the BOM not being read properly, but I'm not sure exactly.)

The best way to read it properly is to use a text editor that defaults to UTF-8 when it opens files (for example, TextMate for Mac). Some programs will let you specify what encoding you want to open a file in (just chose UTF-8). Others (such as Scite for PC) will let you open the file, then switch encodings.

Please let me know if that helps. I have retested, and I can confirm that (1) MS Excel and some other programs neither open the file in the correct encoding nor allow you to switch to the correct encoding, and (2) it does display correctly if you have the right software to do it.

@tarcy

140 characters is the Twitter standard that seems to be emerging. Supposedly, the logic was Twitter wanted to support 160 which is the max possible for SMS. Since they wanted to also include usernames they reserved 20 characters for that, hence 140. In a recent interview (http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10118) Twitter's CEO Evan Williams said that this limitation has had unintended, positive consequences - specifically enhancing the ability to scan the Activity Stream.

Could you explain why do you limit 140 characters?

140 characters is nod bad, and why don't you limit fewer characters? I think, writing Chinese in this activity doesn't need so many characters.

Henning,

one of the things that interest me is the cognitive and social effects resulting from the multiplication of channels (conversations, tweets, blogs, wikis, podcasts, webcasts, you name it). It has some serious business relevance when you try to get a message across and join the conversation.

I thought there is only so much one can absorb, even for the 'grown up digital' generation. But while the disruption is obvious in this very focused community from continuous waves of changes, this seems very transient.

I guess what happens is people adjust to a fluid subset of whatever in the toolkit works for them, much as we only use a few percent of the OpenOffice features. We all seem to constantly recombine those elements, not sure how stable this really is over time. One thing I find amusing is seeing a bunch of business guys feel compeled to candidly tell the world what the heck they had for breakfast on the fadebooks and other waste tubes...

Anyway, the tinkering goes on, in corporate circles too, and things will get worse before they get better ('bricolage' the late Claudio Ciborra from LSE would say).

Goulnik,
I still try to get accustomed with the thought that we I am just a test tube in your Action Research lab. Certainly a new perspective to life.

:P

In my experience, everyone dislikes Twitter/Yammer, and the micro sites, when they first use them. At first I just could nto see the point. It kind of peeved me tio a certain extent. After a while , however, I began to see the point. My guess is that in a few weeks people will find their own amazing ways to use the activity stream and we'll see a wave of creative ideas and applications for it.

If it helps learning people will use it. I am convinced that will happen.  

John,

"New Exercises will be done next month as part of a larger Assessments project"

Thankyou.I'm really looking forward to that.I'm sure it's not for everyone but while many people find undertakings such as the study of Chinese daunting, I like the old saying ,"slowly slowly catchy monkey" which can help make things less daunting.To this end I think assessments really help guage where one is at and break it down into baby steps.It helps one focus on goals and the feedback helps one hone in on areas that need improvement.Even small steps of achievement can be rewarding and encouraging.Thanks again for listening to all our requests and your hard work.Cheers :)

Hi John,

I got the CSV export to "work" but same as before - nonsense characters where hanzi should be. Is there something on my end I need to change? I usually have no trouble "seeing" chinese characters.

thanks

RJ

 this is what I see:

It's fascinating to see all these developments and interactions between ChinesePod and the community, I can even justify spending company time as this is a real, socio-techincal eLab with test tubes and all.

Feedback about this beta (@henning : alpha is typically internal testing only):

• 1-click access from conversations, and
  
• multi-level selection please (n and above).
  

I don't ask for too much. My little request is that texts in the current comments here in Chinesepod will keep the same format, such as line breaks and spaces, after next version up. Is this so difficult technically?

Henning,

To put this in perspective, only one developer was assigned to work on the Activity tab, and the whole project took several weeks. The majority of ChinesePod tech resources are allotted to the other fixes and features that we discussed above.

I understand your point, but ChinesePod is going to continue to be interested in the new ways of learning that technology makes possible, which means continued experimentation.

RJ,

1. Yes, writing practice is a big part of it, and for the upper levels, that would be in 汉字.
2. That remaining 20% has turned out to be quite a tricky piece of work. If all goes well, it will be done in early April.
3. The CSV export works fine for me. I wonder if it is a function of the quantity of data you're trying to export. How many words are we talking about here? Does it work if you try to export a subset by using labels?

Feel free to e-mail me as well if you continue to have problems.

Hi John,
actually that was not a bug list but a priority list with some random examples in parentheses.

In fact, I am not at all worried that you are *not* doing all this. The exact opposite is the case -  I fear that you are trying all this plus adding 2,345 new features at the same time. Bringing in new alpha-versions features of yet undetermined value which will open a gazillion of new construction sites. Leaving only minimal developer time slices for new Grammar Guide entries or bug fixes.

And I also understood Calkins post in this regard. The new English optional/Traditional features on the other hand were right on track. Learning related and addressing long term needs.

@tarcy,

The Google Reader issue has been fixed today and will be uploaded tomorrow morning along with a few other tweaks.

John,

1. if the intent of the "activity feed" is to write strictly or primarily in hanzi, then I can see it serving a purpose, and perhaps separation by level also makes sense.

2. On Oct 19th, 2008 you said in regard to the backend system upgrade mentioned above:

"Right now the videos are missing some of the features of full lessons: dialogue tab, full transcript in the PDF, difficulty level, etc. This is partly due to an insufficiently flexible backend production system. We're finishing up an upgrade now (it's 80% done), which will allow full support for things like transcripts."

When can we expect this last 20% to be finished?

3. Upgrades to exporting are certainly good news and I have always been frustrated by the fact that the csv export would not work. Today I tried the upgraded version but it just hangs. I will try again later. This is (or will be) a welcome fix.

I tried to add the feed of my Activity Stream into Google Reader, but it does not work. Is this just my problem?

Calkins and Hennings,

I second everything that Steve says, but I'd also like to address your bug fix wish lists. When I'm not working lessons, I'm basically working on this stuff full-time.

1. PDF's for all lessons (QW, PWP, etc.): This requires an upgrade of our backend system to do properly, and is already in progress.
2. Better Vocabulary Manager usability and better Flashcard function: We just upgraded the vocab manager to better support traditional characters and legacy data, as well as more export functionality. The flashcard upgrade is coming, but in the meantime, now that export is working, you do have options.
3. Completed Grammar Guide: The ChinesePod Team works on the Grammar Guide daily (although updates are not published daily). I will be blogging about this soon. Keep in mind, though, that this is a huge project. We're talking thousands of pages here. It's a finite project, but it's not going to seem complete for a while, even if you're paying attention to every update. The important this is that we are making steady progress on it in addition to all our normal lesson production.
4. Native Traditional Support for the entire site (Vocab. Mgr., Grammar Guide, etc.): Just finished it for the vocab manager. The Grammar Guide update is coming.
   Correcting Bugs ("-4 messages" anyone? Community search?): PM fixes have been scheduled. We do have a Community search, but I guess you mean a better one?
5. Adding learning related content (grammar guide, traditional support, interlinking lessons etc.): As I mentioned above, we are working on this every day. Adding the Grammar Guide content will enable us to link it to the lessons and do all kinds of other cool things.
6. Additional learning functions (new exercises, games, better flashcards): New Exercises will be done next month as part of a larger Assessments project, which I will be blogging about closer to its release. Games will be supported by the new API.
7. Usability enhancements (direct links to HTML-files, tagging, enhanced search and grouping features): We are doing these in small batches, and have been for some time. This will not end.
8. Maintaining already introduced interfaces and channels (m.Chinesepod, uservoice, groups): The mobile site is due for an overhaul and is scheduled. The others are being maintained. We released some usability enhancements for Groups recently, and we do update UserVoice weekly.
9. Flexibility enhancements through APIs, components, export formats, or database interfaces: We're doing this.

The Activity Stream is a new idea to enhance learning, launched in tandem with lots of other site upgrades and improvements, many of which are requests from you, or users, via UserVoice or other channels. It's not an either/or thing.

Basically, every single item on your lists is either in progress now or is specifically scheduled for tech work already. The blog will keep you updated on the changes.

@zhenlijiang

Very good point. It is hard to correct every mistake, but we are looking to add an admin function for our teachers to mark the responses right or wrong. This will be reflected by a green or red background color for the message. At least this way other users will know what they should emulate and what they should examine for mistakes.

Thanks for all the feedback. This is a beta feature after all!

another reason not-yet-advanced users may hesitate to post comments in Chinese when we know we must be stringing mistakes together and trying to pass them for sentences, is that as long as our errors go uncorrected (there are kind poddies who do help, but they can't all the time for each one of us), we don't ever know.  was that okay? wrong? if so how should it have been written?  so while it's very good to practice anyway, i really feel the need to have someone correct me to have truly learned.  rather than remaining unsure and risking getting into bad habits, many users probably opt not to post in Chinese.

so is there some way we could have our writing corrected if not all the time, from time to time with some regularity?  i do realize that's a lot of labor to ask for, but think it's necessary in order for the practice to be truly helpful and satisfying.  intermediate users i think need this heavily.

bababardwan,

I meant 'public' in the sense of open or exposed, rather than as the opposite of paid.

My view is that users will be more comfortable writing their first Chinese comments in the activity stream than on the public stage of the community section. The community section is about open discussion on any topic (and if you're able to converse in written Chinese at this level you're more than welcome). However the activity stream is about practicing your Chinese (hence the prompts, and level-specific environment).

Going back to your question about who will be able to access the feature though - the activity stream is currently in beta, and we have made it available to all to maximise the feedback we can get. We are listening to your comments to help us improve it, and are considering how to make it of most value to learners. Depending on how the beta period and a few projects we are testing in the office work out, the activity stream may become a feature of one of our paid subscriptions in the future, but we haven't decided yet.

Thanks for these great questions! Keep them coming!

Just a note on the contents of the Activity Stream. In this beta version you see all recent messages at your specified academic level in addition to all of your own messages irregardless of the level. It is a beta version so of course this design point is up for debate.

steve,

"intimidating than trying to hold your own in a Chinese discussion in the very public Community section"..

...so am I right in presuming that the Activity Feed is viewable only by paid subscribers? Also,if,as you suggest, users do find the Community section intimidating,then why make it so public? I can certainly understand why some would find it intimidating and think all barriers should be removed to encouraging people to post in the Community section.

Some interesting discussion here - I want to address questions about the purpose of the activity stream.

Language learning requires input and output. ChinesePod does a great job on the input side, with 1000's of great lessons and a pedagogy that focuses on lexis etc.

However, we don't really help users with output. Some users practice their Chinese in the posts and comments, but if you are a newbie or a newcomer to the site this can be a bit daunting.

I think the value of the activity stream is it gives users a structured way to practice. Responding to a level-appropriate question in under 140 characters is much less intimidating than trying to hold your own in a Chinese discussion in the very public Community section. 

I'm hoping that this structure and guidance will give people who have never typed a word of Chinese the courage to try to hold simple conversations in Chinese. We all know that one of the best ways to retain a language is to use it. Wouldn't it be great to see people who'd never typed Chinese start to use it to communicate!

Yes, that happened to me as well after I made some comments on Elementary and then went to look at the newbie page.  My comments that followed me to the newbie page certainly are out of place. (And I don't know if they followed me back home to Elementary or if they're still there in Newbie; I mean I guess they'll be wherever I look....?.....? [which is weird].) 

But I do like the activity whatchamacallit; I think it has potential for challenging learners using a construct not found in the other user areas of Chinesepod.  As an elementary learner, I would vote to leave pinyin out of that construct; the reader is forced to look up characters that don't spring to mind. It's strengthening to be without pinyin to depend upon.

I just came across a minor problem with this Activity Feed that might be worth looking into.I just changed my academic level from Ellie to Intermediate to see what was going on in the Intermediate Activity Feed.The funny thing was that the comments I made on the Ellie Activity Feed migrated with me and now seem somewhat out of place.I'd be inclined to leave comments where they are made.

Thanks a lot RJ for pointing out where to change level.I can only blame Bailey's for blinding me somewhat,hehe.

Good or bad, confusing as it may be, the proliferation of channels and tools is a reflection of what's going on out there on the net. Not all will survive, things constantly in flux...

Not questioning the need to fix what's broken or missing, I tend to agree with zhenlijiang's analysis. I see quite clearly with my News group that the task of reading, let alone writing Chinese can be daunting.

We'll see whether the same 'elite' group takes over this feed, but it should be a lot easier to jump into conversations.

i too at first wasn't too excited, as it seemed like "one more thing to deal with".  but am very quickly converted! 

i see the merit in this is great for students like myself (intermediate, but still really struggling w/putting sentences together and generally making myself understood in Chinese), and i think also newbies and elles.  these are opportunities to get little bits of writing practice, the kind of writing you couldn't do a lot of in the conversations and lesson discussions where participants are generally expected to make some "contribution".

many people may find that it takes too much time or effort to post comments in the conversations; especially if there is a heated discussion going on it can be intimidating, and if you're not yet confident in your Chinese writing you end up, like i do, posting virtually all in English.  and we tend to see the same participants all the time which is ok, but i think the whole community benefits if more people get involved.

responding as best as i can to 2 or 3 simple, non-controversial questions every day i think is really going to add up and improve my ability and confidence.  really good idea--bravo.

bababardwan,

to the right of the text box at the top is says:

Your activity stream currently includes:

• Your Messages/Posts.
• Replies to your Messages/Posts.
• Elementary Messages. (Change level)

click on change level in parenthesis to change level.

Calkins, Henning,

My thoughts Exactly.

RJ

I support Calkins' and Henning's comments.

My personal wish list is prioritized as follows:

1. Correcting Bugs ("-4 messages" anyone? Community search?)
2. Adding learning related content (grammar guide, traditional support, interlinking lessons etc.).
   
3. Additional learning functions (new exercises, games, better flashcards)
4. Usability enhancements (direct links to HTML-files, tagging, enhanced search and grouping features)
5. Maintaining already introduced interfaces and channels (m.Chinesepod, uservoice, groups)
6. Flexibility enhancements through APIs, components, export formats, or database interfaces.

A connection to the 345rd hype Web-2.0 service, building the 14th communication channel, supporting yet another proprietary mobile device, or UI bells and whistles without clear learning focus are denied access to my list.

RJ,

Thanks for that mate.Ah yes,of course the blog.I'll know to check there in future.

Re:

"you can also change your level off to the upper right, when in the application"

...unless you mean by going on the Profile tab,I can't see where to do this on the Activity feed page.

Speaking of levels,for quite some time now I've noticed the test your level listening test button has disappeared from it's page.What's the story there? Also,I thought with the recent upgrade there was a plan for more testing so you could assess progress.Is this still in the pipeline?

I'd second Calkins' comment.

My honest reaction is that it's an added and useless layer to a website that is slowly becoming overwhelming.  For users who have been here for a while, it's not difficult to keep up with a change here and there, but I'd imagine the site is very overwhelming for new users.  Maybe I can't envision the value in a "twitter-like" function, but my gut tells me that it's not very useful to language learning, especially if limited to 140 words.

It seems like it's trying to be a vehicle to make communication easier and more accessible.  Instead, why not make the Conversations section more accessible, searchable, easier to navigate, etc.?  This is something that users have been requesting for a long time...a conversations section that is more updated with current usability.

As it is now, there's a Conversations section, a Forum, a Blog, a UserVoice site (which isn't really accessible from the main site), and now an Activity Feed.  If I was new here, I'd have no clue where to go and would be completely overwhelmed.

And what about other loose ends that have never been tied:

- PDF's for all lessons (QW, PWP, etc.)

- Better Vocabulary Manager usability and better Flashcard function

- Completed Grammar Guide

- Native Traditional Support for the entire site (Vocab. Mgr., Grammar Guide, etc.)

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but why use valuable resources to create something that might work, when there are important items that haven't been completed for a long time?

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, and I do appreciate many of the recently added features, but I just don't get this one.  Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and will see some value in it.

This "Activity Feed" could replace the "Latest Study Activity" on the right side of the community page.

This system is great. Thank you very much!

It might be easy for some users to start writing Chinese, because if you just write a few simple words, it is also OK.

rjberki, I agree with you, too. I would like to read all or several level's comments and communicate with more users in Chinese.

Well its just my first impression and I will give it a chance but right now Im thinking its just another board to check. In fact the way its set up now you have to go through the painful process of changing your level several times if you want to see it all. Why do we need this? An in house twitter. I have to admit I am a little bias since I am not a twitter fan. Im thinking the resources required to develop this could have been better spent. Sorry. Maybe I will come to appreciate it. Time will tell.

Explain to me what determines whether a post goes on the activity page vs the boards, then maybe the function will be more apparent.

bababardwan

the blog has some info

http://blog.chinesepod.com/

you can also change your level off to the upper right, when in the application. Right now elementary has discussion, intermediate does not for example.

RJ,

Where did it even say that it was limited to a particular level? I agree with you though.I don't go for the idea of limiting it to a particular level.

Hi rjberki

You make a very good point. We are discussing how to do this.

I think limiting it by level may present a problem. Perhaps if it would let you see everything up to and including your level? Dont know, too early yet but Im guessing I would want it open to all levels - at least give that choice as an option. If one could choose either one level, all up to your level, or all levels I think it would be more functional. Many people here cross several levels in study and discussion. Anybody else have a thought on this?