Fast pinyin input

Cheers, mate. I'll keep an eye out for it.

Hi toianw

I'm going to try and post some samples in the new handwriting space ..:)

But the book I'm using is 校园演讲文精选 (selected school practice speeches/arguments) - they may come in a set but you can also buy them singly. At the top of each page it describes in writing (& great detail) how you draw selected radicals.

oh, just about to hit the sack mate, but I just noticed this question and didnt want to leave you in the lurch. I just now understood what you were saying on that other thread. Yeah, as darkstar has above, you have to install it. As above, go to this:

扩展功能 > 扩展功能管理

once installed, you click on the tool icon at the bottom of your browser and then click on 扩展功能 [look for a capital N...or probably just type N..not tried that] and then follow that to a new box and click on 手写输入. Good luck mate. Wan an :)

'most Chinese people I know use Sougou'

I'm going to show my age but I reckon that since say 2005 I've seen at least four different pinyin input programs at the top of the hit parade. The first I was introduced to was ABC. Then another I've forgotten already. I've been using Google for that past couple of years and started with Sougou today cause of all this talk. :) Seems ok, loaded quickly (that is interesting that I notice above Baba said it took him ages) - but I would still like to know where the handwriting recognition app is. I'm being lazy, I haven't really looked for it. Do you have to register to get it? I think I skipped that.

Yeah most Chinese people I know use Sougou, that's how I got into it. I like the fact it's quite customizable. What do you use at the moment? I was talking to someone the other day and could tell they were using Sougou because of a picture they typed in which was: O(∩_∩)O哈！ if you are about to type 哈哈 then it should come up. Some of the random pictures that come out are pretty funny.

those structural ime's would be quicker for the uncommon characters though, hey?

I like both Sougou and Google pinyin input. But I remember in middle school, we were forced to learn 五笔字型 input. It was seen as the way of the future. Pretty ridiculous if you think about it now.

ok, I've just created a new group for this purpose here:

http://chinesepod.com/community/groups/view/handwriting-practice-1561

对，是的。 I've said this before actually, but would love to see what everybody's handwriting looks like. Not necessarily a sentence.

我正在试试拍（已经写好很简单的一句）。然后到tinypics 之类的上传一下就好了吧？

yisi shibushi:

you really would like to see everyone handwriting a message [ a sentence at least]

...I'm guessing that you want to see their actual handwriting too, and not the result of handwriting input [where you end up selecting standard format characters just as you do with pinyin input]..right?

I'm wondering what the best way to do this would be? ...In a separate thread, but what format? ..would they have to be uploaded pics?

很想看，大家手写的一句话消息~

"I am talking about following someone's script just for the purposes of learning written communication in Chinese"

..ah, I see. I must confess I wasn't particularly interested in this, mainly because I was just interested in what you'd encounter as a tourist [signs, restaurant menus, and the like...I spy that you're going to tell me a lot of these are handwritten, eg chalk boards , hehe], and reading books ...printed stuff. I think reading cursive is a whole other ball game from the little I've seen.

"we assume that it is all typed these days but writing by hand is still an everyday occurrence"

..yes, I assumed mostly I'd encounter printed, typed stuff, stuff on signs which is very legible [ok, I know how advertisers like to morph it..artistic license and all that] and wouldn't encounter much handwritten stuff

"not big blocky characters that would embarrass a 2nd grader"

I might be happy enough with that, hehe :)..or perhaps just want it to the degree that something like pleco is happy to recognise if I wanted to use handwriting input and show a character for clarification. I guess it would be good to have writing that was going to be ok for HSK one day too though. Man, I thought skritter was going to get me over the line in that regard. You're making it sound hard.

"So although I like Scritter it does not develop normal/regular hand-writing skills"

..even with a writing tablet you reckon?

"following someone's script"

"develop normal/regular hand-writing skills"

"because I am using standard writing books - 说明，论文。。"

Any chance you could elaborate on this Baodawei? I'd like to find some way of learning a cursive script - nothing fancy, just the shortcuts Chinese people make when they write by hand (to have a go at myself, but also just to improve my ability to read Chinese people's handwriting). What materials are you using?

thanks for the tips darkstar :)

hmm, I don't think I'd use it enough to be honest, but I'll think about it anyway.

I chat to Chinese friends, mainly in China but sometimes ones in New Zealand. These are my main ways to get people to practice with, in terms of online chatting anyway:

1. Already having Chinese friends and just encouraging them to chat in Chinese with you.

2. Get a QQ and/or Renren account. Especially for QQ, if you have your picture, people will sometimes add you to practice English, you can usually just perserve and keep on typing Chinese to them. The only problem with this way is that they are usually quite young.

3. Signing up to mylanguageexchange.com. This way I think is the best. You can sign up for free and wait for people to contact you (which is what I did) or you can pay some money and just find people that what to exchange English and can speak Chinese.

Most of the people I talk to I've met in person, but if you are just practicing for language stake then just talking with a stranger is fine in my opinion.

yeah, that's the same one I got..wacom bamboo pen tablet...it's bottom of the range but it's been perfect. the small size is perfect for my purposes...writing hanzi [perhaps if you were getting one for graphic design type stuff larger would be better]...it's plenty big enough for the hanzi and doesn't take up too much real estate on my desk.

Yeah, the exchange rate was about the best it's ever been last I checked but I thought by the time I added in postage and handling any potential saving might be small and not worth the wait. But maybe it maybe worthwhile.

"try chatting one day"

I'd have to find some mates first. Do you chat with native Chinese speakers in China, local Chinese friends, or fellow learners? But yeah, I imagine you'd feel like you're dragging the chain if they're typing and you're on handwriting input..it would feel slow I'm sure to pump out whole sentences.

haha yeah as in msn and facebook etc, try chatting one day using that and tell me how it goes :D is this the same tablet as you use? last time I checked the currency conversion was pretty good, I assume it'd be the same for Australia too right?

‘So my goal is not calligraphy。。’

I understand that; I am actually not talking about calligraphy either, I too find that just too challenging, unless doing it with water for a bit of fun. I am talking about following someone's script just for the purposes of learning written communication in Chinese. It is amazing how much hand writing still exists - we assume that it is all typed these days but writing by hand is still an everyday occurrence. One of the challenges is getting your writing the right size & still legible - not big blocky characters that would embarrass a 2nd grader. :) So although I like Scritter it does not develop normal/regular hand-writing skills. It is excellent for learning the basic strokes and remembering characters. And I enjoy the feel of paper and the flow of real ink.

'Who would I write to?'

I see the problem - living here I think you get natural excuses to write that you don't get normally living overseas, so it is not as boring as it could be. The enjoyment I get is, however, drawn mainly from the content, because I am using standard writing books - 说明，论文。。

ok, just checked and it's listed as down from $80 to $57.54 :

http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-CTL460-Bamboo-Pen-Tablet/dp/B002OOWC3I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1302035658&sr=8-1

..but by the time you add in postage deng deng and I'm not sure what the NZD/USD exchange rate is.

I think it was listed on the skritter site as around $50 USD [don't quote me] but that seemed to not list Australia and also gave a link to an Amazon site. But of course there's postage and handling even if it is cheaper overseas. ebay might be worth a look.

when you say "chatting" ...do you mean like instant messaging like msn or facebook style? ...in that case, yeah, I wouldn't be inclined at all as it would slow you down. that instant messaging usually goes at a frantic pace, hehe. Actually, that would be fun in Chinese...never tried that. Could be a real dogs breakfast though at speed, hehe...all grammar out the window...unless it's like with drinking and it actually becomes improved as theres no inhibition.

"because it has handwriting input?"

yes, exactly, and it's not as dramatic as "a shift from google input" because I still have that as well [just a quick toggle between the two] and they're both free.

"you mean in a Word doc"

..I haven't tried it there, but will check it out for you if you like. I was thinking more of using it here on the boards..it works in firefox.

"so slow compared to pinyin input"

yes, typing will remain much faster so I don't know how often I'll use it, but it is to practice my handwriting.

"for practising writing? You should be doing this with pen and paper - definitely the best way to practice writing and to learn characters"

yes, for practicing writing. I can see doing with pen and paper is the ideal because it's ridgy-didge, but who would I be writing to?...I've done a tiny amount of this before, but I personally quickly find it gets a bit boring on my own and I get lazy. I like the social interactive thing....feeling like you're writing to someone. I mean sometimes I can see the fun of pen to paper but there's a limit to how much of that I can do. Also, you say no electronic thing can come close....have you tried it with a writing tablet? ...I think it comes somewhat close...a reasonable simulation.

"you can trace the work of a master"

yes, I can see great appeal in this. Trouble is I have a lot of interests but only a finite amount of time to pursue them. So my goal is not calligraphy [a beautiful artistic pursuit...something I'd like to do on a summer vacation perhaps ] or the other handwriting interests you mention. My goal is just to have adequate writing [legible without being beautiful], what skritter will accept on a strict setting is ok by me, and I'm particularly impressed by what this will do for my reading comprehension.

oh okay, I think that's a little bit much than I'm willing to spend haha, plus most of the Chinese I write is like chatting, which would be annoying if I had to write every character...

Hey Baba

I haven't read all of this but can you clarify why you would shift from Google input to the sougou product - because it has handwriting input? Trying to get my head around that - you mean in a Word doc for example you can write the characters? I'm trying to decide whether I should check it out.

It would be so slow compared to pinyin input for writing - that is the main practical drawback. And if you want to write a character in order to identify it you can do that in a dictionary, either on-line or in my case I prefer my e-dictionary because the writing tool is pretty sophisticated.

I guess my question is .. what do you want the handwriting recognition for? First possibility is for practising writing? You should be doing this with pen and paper - definitely the best way to practice writing and to learn characters. No electronic device can come close really.* Two - for finding/solving/learning a character or word - the dictionary does this best. Three - for general writing on a computer - way too slow. Is there another application?

Having said all that, I do wish sometimes that I had an electronic link between my e-dictionary and the laptop, for a copy and paste. But then again - copying is very good practice. I just need an e-dictionary with a screen like my iPod Touch4. Does Pleco exist for the laptop? Seems not, only hand-held stuff.

* For instance - you can trace the work of a master .. I find it 很平静的 .. really a wonderful experience. Also helps you appreciate hand-writing styles .. something you cannot get from the printed word or from an electronic tool.

$99 which I know is not to be sneezed at, but I love it and think it's good value. My fav toy. It comes with some other software too that I haven't gotten round to checking out yet...I think it's some sort of simple artistic software..like paint probably...but doing it with a pen should be more lifelike. It was very easy to get it up and running [as expected a cd for installation and just connects to the usb]. I think in terms of using it for ordinary mouse function it's good too, but I find the mouse a little smoother to use for that, so I really only use it when skritter is thrown into the multitasking mix. Actually, the writing tablet and an ordinary mouse can both be plugged in and ready to go at the same time, so I sometimes switch back n forth between the two [as long as the pen is away from the writing tablet when you want to use the mouse otherwise it's a battle to see if the pen is mighter than the mouse].

haha, how much did you pay for a writing tablet? yeah I usually do that too, just write in two word combinations to find the hard words, I kind of discovered that Chinese usually works in twos anyway

oh, and for the record, as expected, this sougou handwriting input does work with a writing tablet. Not as fast as typing yeah, but speedy writing will be the aim [no calligraphy prizes here] so I think my mantra will be 搜狗：“手Go!"

speaking of hard to find characters in pinyin input [for example ji has dozens of characters...and what if it's the 40th character you're looking for] what I usually do is think of a word that character is in and then type that which usually makes it much easier to find...if not the first word then certainly on a short list ...I enter that and then just delete the character/s I don't need. As a last resort of course you could just get it from an online dictionary and copy and paste it [and there is handwriting support there]

一定是好用。我看到安装的时候搜狗说手写的输入办法是为了很难找的字。。这个看法有道理，而且我喜欢能力联系我的手写 ：）

你觉得好用吗

试验的，一，二，三

你好朋友谢谢帮助我

现在我手写

no problem, glad I could help, if you got any troubles with it maybe I can help haha

even though I have broadband it's downloading it at 4.6kB/sec...still the best part of an hour to go. I have the same trouble with video's from China...takes ages.

hey thanks heaps again mate. I'll give it a shot then if I can work it out. This is what's great about this community. I started off this post in the hope it was a helpful tip to someone and now you've come along and given me a much better tip and advice in return. Much appreciated. Cheers :)

hehe, yeah, "distracted by something shiny"...very funny orangina..you crack out some bewdy's. My new favourite expression,

wa, when did everyone get onto this sougou? I know it's been discussed here a long time ago but I thought that was with macs...or maybe I didn't see a need at the time because google pinyin is fine and I didn't know about the handwriting.

yeah that's my personal stats, first time I've seen it haha, it's even got a graph when you go into it... when I first found out about the handwriting function I thought it'd be awesome with one of those tablets too, turns out they are quite expensive though haha

yeah it's free, and the installation is all in Chinese, but it's all pretty simple, there is a part you will find where you can choose words from particular dictionaries and stuff, that's pretty cool I think... from memory I just went next for every part and had no problems, I'm not sure if you can install the handwriting thing during the installation process, I just did it afterwards

zhen,

when I switched from the inbuilt ms pinyin to google pinyin I noticed a significant improvement...but that was probably a couple of years ago..perhaps the differences aren't so great now. But I'm really only interested in this sougou for the handwriting input...if it's not as good as google input in the typing dept then I can always toggle back to google pinyin ime for that.

yep that's the one

thanks for letting me know cinnamonfern

get it from here, I guess?:

http://pinyin.sogou.com/

darkstar,

thanks so much for this mate. you're a champ. I was perfectly happy with google pinyin input, but I wasn't aware there were any ime's that could do handwriting input so I'm very excited about this. Yes, I would expect it to be slower than typing, but I've started using skritter and that's just a character at a time...it will be fun to type sentences, and try and see if an ime recognises it when it doesn't know what you're about to write [whereas skritter already knows what you should be inputting]. I guess, most people do this with a mouse. It should work with a writing tablet too. I presume those stats in your last post are your own personal stats, right? Looks like fun, particularly the words per minute.

ok, I'm off to search for sougou. Bit nervous though...is the whole installation in Chinese? It's free as well I take it?

Nope, I use it on my PC and I can use it on my Toshiba laptop as well, I've had no problems with it ever...

I haven't use the writing character input thing in a while, but while I was looking for it I found this, it looks pretty cool:

--- 搜狗拼音输入法输入统计数据 ---

数据统计区间：2010.9.17 - 2011.6.22 (共277天)

输入总字数：40279 字

今日输入总字数：23 字

当前打字速度：无

今天最快速度：11 字/分钟

历史最快速度：63 字/分钟

Okay so I finally found it (the handwriting function), turns out I didn't have it installed, this is what I did just writing in the characters:

你好，我在用搜狗手写输入

It's under 扩展功能 > 扩展功能管理 if you want to install this function if you get sougou. It is quite good because you tells you the tone of the character as well, obviously it's a lot slower than pinyin input though.

' I got distracted by something shiny. '

LOL.

I came across this expression yesterday after I was trying to explain that 'the shine had gone off something' - my friend said this was the most succinct way he could think of expressing this idea in Chinese:

喜新厌旧 xi3xin1yan4jiu4

We know Chinese is succinct - but does this expression break all previous records for succinctness?

I'm kind of attracted to chengyu that are feasible to remember - this one I think I will remember and use.

Wondered if you would like this expression too.

hehe, Yes, did you notice I did not tell you what the cloud actually meant? I havn't studied the page yet either. Though I did open it in chrome rather than sogou so I could use my pop-up translator to get the gist. But after I opened the tab, I got distracted by something shiny. Now I'll never know. ;-)

Hey thanks for that orangina! I‘ve tried so many times to click on it; never occurred to me to mouse over. Now I have to go figure out what it says exactly hehe. Oops and it's Sogou (^^ゞ

I hadn't seen the cloud, at least not noticed it... so I randomly typed a bunch of stuff and there it was. So I moused over it and was lead to this.

I also use sougou on a PC.

Baba I’ve also been using sougou (PC) but to be honest I can't see that it's veeery much better to use than the apparently unpopular MS built-in. It‘s cool for me though to see some of the features, like it will give you little notices when they’ve added new words to their dictionaries--all part of learning about current subjects in China. And I guess I also don't know it too well yet either, don‘t know about handwriting recognition, sorry.

Hey does anyone using sougou know what that animated cloud symbol thing is that seems to come up randomly among the suggestions for words as you type?

I use Sougou on my Toshiba laptop. It seems to work fine with Vista.

hi darkstar,

yeah, I've heard good things about sougou but it's for mac right? ...the rare times I have used the mac for chinese the inbuilt one has been ok, but it's cool to know it works with sougou also. When you say:

"as well as write in the characters"

..are you saying that sougou has handwriting recognition also? ...that you could use to directly enter in a post such as this?

Hi Jim,

I got the book two days ago, and I can't put it down. Thanks again!

-Bobby

他真是啊！I am fascinated by it myself!

Jim, I can't thank you enough!!!!!

谢谢

This is a fascinating conversation and exchange. 你真是助人为乐！

btw, thanks a lot, AND what a coincidence!

I go to Cal State L.A., but I live on the West Side, so Beverly Hills is way more convenient for me!

I think he charges US$15 but I'm coming to LA in a couple of weeks so I could bring you a copy if you like.

We'll be staying on the East Side (Walnut) but will be in Beverly Hills too. So, your choice.

Where are you in school?

How much would one of those books be with shipping to Los Angeles? Send me a private message.

你真的送給我嗎？

I managed to reach the guy so I ordered two copies. He charged me US$25 for each. I paid him via PayPal.

(He has an old web site that offers two books for US$10 each but he doesn't respond to the e-mail address given there.)

It feels a little like getting screwed but this is what he said is the price.

If you want a copy, fine; I'll send one to you. If not, That's OK too.

Jim

Let me know and I might buy the book!

Hi Jim,

The best thing I can tell you is to ask someone from Hong Kong to teach you, since they seem to be the only people on the planet who use it.

If all else fails, if you look at each entry in the mdgb online English-Chinese dictionary, they will have the canjie input code, and you can learn it one by one, just like you learned how to write characters by hand.

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php

Just curious, why the interest in canjie? I'll admit, my interest in canjie was just to show off, but it seemed pretty complicated when I got down to it. If I want to input colloquial Cantonese characters that have no pinyin, I use this other website where you can input characters using a Cantonese Romanization method.

I hope you can make me envious by learning canjie fluently one day. I'll input vicariously through you.

-Bobby

While you're waiting for a good answer, I guess you've seen the wikipedia article on cangjie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangjie_input_method

...it could be worth exploring some of the links in the article if you haven't already. Sorry I can direct to teaching materials. Good luck :)

哈哈 ：）