Culture shock

My satellite TV sits unused because I don't pay for a service - however you can still get DW-TV. It's free! Strange? Someone said it is the only one we get because the dish points to the DW-TV satellite but all the other satellites are in another position in the sky.

Your guess is as good as mine Changye (actually, your guess is probably better than mine since you're in China). I've seen a few reports on DW-TV over the years which were most likely not to the CCP's liking. But, I'd say that most of their China related programming is either business oriented, focusing on German -- China trade, or focused on culture and cultural exchange. I don't find DW's reporting anymore anti-China than the BBC's or anyone else's. That's just my observation. I haven't done a page by page comparison or anything.

It is a shame, as you say though, that the Chinese people aren't able to take advantage of the free German language lessons offered by DW. They have a lot of material online. Interactive lessons and tests, audio, video and such. In fact, since you've reminded me, I'm going to have to spend some time poking around there, since I've taken just about all the German classes offered at my local university.

Maybe the officials in charge of the firewall wall will see what an opportunity the Chinese people are missing out on, and unblock DW or part of it or something. :-/

I hear "Deutsche Welle" provides a very good German learning program, but to my regret the website is blocked here in the PRC. Can someone please tell me why the CCP doesn't like the German site. Now even the BBC is NOT blocked here. Is German that influential in the PRC?

Caught a doc. on Deutsche Welle about a German (Kaiserslautern) actor who is finding success in China's movie industry. His name is Volker Helfrich (Fuleke). Unfortunately, I can't find the program I was watching online.

His imdb

An interview (in German)

He emphasized the importance of speaking fluent Chinese, as well as embracing as much of the culture as possible. Eating what the taxi drivers eat and so on.

Interesting. I didn't know about him. (Edgar Snow and Norman Bethune might be considered.) I'm having some trouble with my own question, though, because I can't figure out how to define acceptance. Accepting a celebrity and a regular Joe may be two different things. It seems rare for any immigrant to both feel, and be accepted as 100% part of their new home. People who immigrate as children are be an exception. (Canada's current and former Governors General for example. I wouldn't include Canada - U.S. immigration.) Then, a person could be completely accepted and still feel as if they're not. And that's a whole other thing. I'll have to do some thinking.

Does Dashan count ?

I find that cultural divide you mention really interesting. Studying German, I was continually being told about the great cultural differences dividing Germans and Canadians. I didn't see them. Minor differences sure, but no really big ones.

Again, I live in England, but it's always funny at the airport watching couples reunite. I've only been there two or three times waiting for my g/f to come back from china around new year time, but at that time obviously there are other people doing the same thing. English couples - big hug, kiss, even outright snogging in the middle of the concourse. Chinese couples, despite being obviously really excited to see each other, might stray as far as a brief (side) hug before moving on. Really marked difference that always makes me smile :)

I'll shake hands.

Really? You have Chinese friends who do the kiss-on-the-cheek thing? I have talked to Chinese about this topic a few times, and most of them seemed freaked out by it, and I have never come across anyone who has said they have done it. (To be honest, I'm all about hugs, but I don't like the kiss-on-cheek-thing either). I tend to not know Chinese who hang out with foreigners. Many of the Chinese I know have foreigner colleagues and bosses, but no foreigner friends, so I kind of agree that it might be your buddies' unique backgrounds.

I also agree with jiazhougirl that Chinese people are not into hugs, and this goes for typical Shanghainese. Women walking arm-and-arm, yes. Men palling around with their arms around each other, sometimes. But hugs, not so much unless they have an exceptionally cosmopolitan background.

Hmmm...funny. Yep, I agree generation/location/background probably make a big difference.

That's interesting - my experience is a bit different. In fact I'd say a good number of my Chinese friends in Shanghai are totally at ease with kiss-on-the-cheek greetings (to be fair, many of them have travelled abroad, so maybe that affects things?).

I've also noticed that young local Chinese, both male and female, are pretty tactile with their friends. I've often seen guys hugging each other, leaning on their friends' shoulders etc. Girls will very often join arms as they walk, too.

I suppose it could be a generational thing, plus I imagine location and background make a difference, too...

Whew, that's a relief. My tangential musing isn't always so well received. Not that it's ever stopped me. I hope this thread keeps going, though. I'm really interested in hearing what the others have to say.

But, to borrow hellotherebrick's expression from that other thread, "off fer a lig i'bed."

not at all mate..very pertinent,and thankyou for all your input here.We have a lot to learn from how foreigners cope when they come to our society,so I'm very happy if the convo goes that way as well.I always think the more comments the better anyhow,and just because I started a thread I think Poddies can do what they want with it.Nothin worse than a dead thread,hehe. Jiayou pengyou :)

Honestly, I don't know how some of the students I mentioned even function in an English university. There is writing assistance offered to them, but I'd hate to be in their shoes.

Someday, maybe I'll be able to ask them about all this in Mandarin.

well, to your point, I have less Chinese friends in China because my Chinese is so poor. The few locals that have poor English that are willing to put up with my halting Chinese are the ones in my building.

yes,I think a lack of friends and feeling alienated and isolated would be the hardest thing if that's how things ended up.Jiayou mate.:)

Thanks! That makes sense. You have so few expats among so many locals, and besides, nowadays you can easily communicate with friends and family back home.

In Lanzhou, we tended not to hang out with other expats, because there were so few (I was told that there are about 150 recently), and the few that were there were spread out over the entire city of 2 million people. Local Chinese were pretty friendly. Beijing is a mix of expats and locals.

So, do you guys hang out with other expats or ... ? Just curious.

magnus, good list also. I forgot about the friends. In a few years, maybe my Chinese will be good enough to forge friendships.

suxiaoya,

In the discussion on your blog you don't seem to have elaborated on whether you'll include the registration process and all the other leadup. I'm very interested to see how a fellow Intermediate student copes with such processes,including not only how well understood,but workarounds based on a finite category.Also a list of lessons that may have prepared you vocab wise would be useful.Once again,jiayou suxiaoya. :)

I could have sworn that I suggested this in my post above,but maybe it was one of those add on edit's that just didn't work...zaogao...I should have double checked [unless CPod edited it out as I was suggesting something planned anyway].Anyway,I was trying to suggest that suxiaoya do a suxiaoyacam for when she's in the Shanghai marathon and I'm so excited because it looks like in her blog post she plans to do just that:

http://blog.sarahedson/2010/03/31/shanghaimarathon.cam.a323p8978r9734i74862l993f4789634o3497947o9379l

Jiayou suxiaoya !!!!

well mate I hope for your sake shushu and ayi can look past this one as well [I hear the Chinese aren't big on sarcasm].Hang in there good buddy.Jiayou ;)

btw Do the Chinese believe in 3 strikes and you're out?

Thanks for the info, because I was being 100% serious :-p

NOTE SARCASM ;-)

I wouldn't bet on that mate. I don't know this guy:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-personalities/26263-fauja-singh-oldest-marathon-runner.html

...but google comes up with him as the oldest marathon runner at 98. Regardless,there are plenty of old folk running marathons.

...and a guy called Ed Whitlock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Whitlock

...ran a marathon in under 3 hours over the age of 70

"The running scene in China is pretty young."

That's 'cos the old folk can't keep up.

The running scene in China is pretty young. I don't think it will be too long before more half-marathons make their way onto the race calendar here. In fact, I believe Suzhou is holding its first half-marathon in early April...

Suxiaoya,

Can I put in a request that you go on News and Features and discuss your running experiences in China? I'd love to hear more about it and you sound very experienced.Jiayou.

compared to Beijing, yes, you guys are not as deprived. The annoying thing is that with the GWM, and Beijing Marathon, and this TNF 100, Beijing doesn't look deprived either, until you pay attention to the fact that everything's a marathon or longer or tougher. Not even a measly half-marathon.

Yeah, an 8km in Pudong, sponsored this year by New Balance (so pretty serious!).

There's a marathon in the mountains of Hangzhou this coming weekend, which some friends and I are doing. It's one of the toughest courses I've ever done (never ending steps!), but it's beautiful: tea plantations, pagodas and an old graveyard are highlights. Plus, there's the added fun of following green paint markings on the trees all the way round because there is no support or marshals!

I guess we're not so deprived here...

someone hosted an 8K race? You guys are lucky! It sounds like in Shanghai, you guys can run in about 5 or so races in a year. Plus you can run outdoors all the time.

@pretzellogic

Ah, that's a shame - maybe next year, indeed!

The GWM is one of those "China experiences" that is definitely worth having - but only once, I'd say. The Danes who run it abuse the anxieties of foreigners when it comes to travelling in China, charging stupid prices for the full travel package (and novelty factor). Even if you just enter the race and sort the travel/hotels yourself, though, it's still over-priced.

Rant over.

SpanishPod/QingWen's Liliana and I just did an 8km race in Shanghai yesterday. It was a lot of fun and the weather was perfect. I just wish we had more opportunities for these kinds of events in China, as you mentioned.

suxiaoya, thanks for reminding me about the great wall marathon. i was actually thinking about running it. it's interesting your feedback about the great wall marathon being a ripoff, on the other hand, I guess i can't really expect GWM organizers to put on their site that the marathon wasn't worth it! But as it turns out, I might not be in China at the time.

Thanks for the heads up about the North Face races. Too bad that the 10K is sold out. Maybe next year. The North Face 100 is waaaayyyyyy out of my league. The farthest i've ever run is 15 miles. I've been running indoors during the winter, and 10 miles on a treadmill is boring enough, especially at my speeds.

Actually, it would be fun to cheer you on. In theory, I could just enter the 50 KM race, and then drop out after 10 miles, but somehow, Ithat seems wrong...but It might be able to do that if i'm in town :)

@Pretzellogic

Have you considered the Beijing North Face Challenge on May 8th? They are holding 10km, 50km and 100km races (I just entered the 50km). I did it last year and it's very well organised - and far, far cheaper than the Great Wall Marathon, which is fun but a total rip-off.

More information:

www.thenorthface.com.cn/tnf100

You cooked a roast in your toaster oven Catherine? I'm impressed. For me, warming a muffin without setting the kitchen alight is a feat.

I hear ya Pretzellogic. If you can't have chocolate chip cookies then why bother. ;-) I watched a program about a German chef working in China. He was trying to create a cake recipe that would approximate a (I think) Black Forest cake, but still appeal to Chinese tastes. I think he replaced the chocolate with red bean paste...

Peanut butter?

True true. For experimental bakers there are all sorts of dried fruit and nuts stands all over China. These are fun to bake with if you can't get your hands on overpriced chocolate chips!

Hi Roderick, as catherinem noted, you can bake cookies, pies, probably even a cake in one of those ovens. I guess I was trying to note that each step is far more challenging than in the states. You have to buy the oven, then the ingredients. Depending on the city you live in, thats easy or difficult, but not likely impossible. So you can bake sugar cookies ok, but chocolate chips cost $8 for a 1lb bag in Beijing if you can find them, and weren't available in Lanzhou the last time I looked.

I've had a lot of success with my little toaster oven, baking cookies included. My proudest moment was when I made a small pork roast in that thing. And didn't have food poisoning afterwards!

9. no culture of baking, so no ability to bake cookies at home. Would a toaster oven get the job done?

pretzell,

Thanks mate,that makes a lot of sense.Great tip about winter too.

baba, I lived in Lanzhou for a year back in 2005 while my wife was doing her doctoral research. That's also when she would head to the village in rural Gansu province, and I was lucky enough to accompany her a couple of time. Cool, eye opening experience being in rural China.

Now, we're in Beijing. I do tend to blend both Beijing and Lanzhou experiences together at time. Now to your question. Running in Beijing's air, no matter how bad, doesn't really bug me. There are no doubt legitamate concerns around air quality and running, but for me personally, I viewed the situation as "if i don't run because of poor air quality, then i just create another easy excuse not to run', and I have plenty of days when it's easy enough to not run. Air quality has improved, but Beijing still has the basic problem Los Angeles had when I lived in LA: both cities are surrounded by mountains on a few sides, and mountains traps smog. When the winds blow to the south or east, then Beijing is pretty clear, and it looks really pretty. But when the wind blows toward the north or west, smog stays put, and visibility and air quality is poor. Winter is a bit worse on air quality because then the people in the surrounding towns start burning coal to heat their homes, and that's definitely where the burning smell comes in. Fortunately, that coal smell shows up relatively infrequently.

suxiaoya, you're right. But I think that's part of the problem for me. most of the races i've run back in the US were reasonably close to me, unless it was a race I really wanted to run, and I had the time. in Beijing, it seems I have less time, or rather, need to do a better job of scheduling my weekends to run something organized like HHH.

pretzell,

I gather you still run though [sorry mate,I must have missed it somehow but to clarify,is it the case that you were once in Lanzhou but are now in Beijing which is my impression,or is it the other way around?].I'm curious how you find the air quality.I know they were trying to reduce the air pollution around the time of the Beijing Olympics,but what about before and since? Here we had Australia's largest car tunnel open yesterday with a fun run to kick it off and I was surprised by how much the air quality seemed to affect things.It felt like you were competing with 5000 for a finite amount of oxygen,whereas I think if you were walking it wouldn't have been so noticeable.So I'm curious how you find the air quality there and whether you think it noticeably affects your running.

pretzellogic - ah, you should give it a try, at least once!

I use hashing more as a way to meet new people, rather than for the running part (as you'll know, it's often secondary to the beer-drinking part). I've just come to accept that we race-starved beggars cannot be choosers ;-)

suxiaoya, consider yourself lucky!! I wish that were around in Beijing. PS, I haven't done the Hash House Harriers yet.

Baba: thankfully, Beijing has no pretzels! :) No cereal in Lanzhou. Beijing is far more expat friendly. No waffles though, or none at Lotte Mart.

Pretzellogic -

I hear you on no.4! I've just signed up for an 8km race in Shanghai, which is next month. Should be fun, but it's the city's only race of that sort of distance - and it's held only once a YEAR!!!

P.S. Bababardwan - thank you for starting yet another fabulous discussion thread :-D

Thanks pretzell.Great list mate.I love specifics.Any trouble getting pretzells there btw?[ok,sorry,that's getting tired].Yeah,I've noticed the raw meat in open markets.I realise how lucky we all are if we have food on our plates,but that wouldn't be my first picking if I could help it.So you can't get Western style cereal at all hey?