地 vs 得

I fully agree. There should be QW for the intermediate level as well! They are so good why not expand them??

With regards to my original question I now understand the basic grammatical difference:

地 is an adverbial construction (ie specifying the action)

得 is a complement construction (of the grade, ie result/change/extent of the action)

both with a couple of specifics.

Of course the stress of an adverb and the stress of a complement are different. Both constructions when translated seem to be adverbial but I realise now that it's not correct. Thanks again for everybody's input!

Yeah, it would be nice if the QW's had a more advanced grammar point every now and then. Aw heck, I'll give it a whirl.

(blushes) I did use a textbook, but I found that trying to explain the points to someone else really helped with my own understanding !

I'm just starting to struggle with Intermediate grammar, but 1) ....唱歌 seems pretty obvious

2) (instinctively) seems okay.

Wouldn't it be great to see some Intermediate grammar in the Qingwen series !?! Most Qingwens seem to be pitched at the Elementary level, and don't explore the 'niceties' in much depth.

Come on, Xiaophil - a Campaign for you ! You're good at these things !

you'r great, thanks. looks as if we are getting there :)

As for number 2, I think there is a rhythm problem. If memory serves me, you cannot just have a single syllable verb all by itself preceded by a two syllable adverbial. The easiest way (but not the only way) to rectify this would be to add a 歌 after 唱.

I know your main question is whether or not 地 is suitable. I think it is, but as usual I'm not exactly an authority. let's put it this way, I did a google search of different variations of your example. Here are the results:

响亮地唱歌 1700 results (seems pretty popular)

响亮唱歌 581 results, and most of them are actually 响亮,唱歌 (seems pretty unpopular, possibly wrong)

And just for kicks, 响亮地唱 I couldn't find any results that didn't have 歌, 出来, some song name or whatever following it. (seems wrong)

In short, I think not only is 地 okay, it is preferred. And don't forget to keep rhythm of the sentence in mind.

I'm curious about number one. I vote 'not too long', but its just a feeling... Oh wait. I just did a google search for "详细一点地". 52,300 results. I think it is definitely okay.

Great explanations!! As a native speaker, I never thought about there are so many nuances in using these two constructions. You explained it very well!

1. Isn't 详细一点 just too long to be used before the verb with 地?

2. Would it be wrong to say 我要响亮地唱? I think it is not wrong, but if,why?

Hi crystal 老师, for me it's very helpful to see the examples of how the 得 construction can be used when talking about something to be done in the future (I wasn't sure it could at all), thank you for explaining that.

But how is xiaotom 同学's teacher not so correct? I find that a bit confusing. Isn't that what the teacher said, that the 地 construction is preferred = more common when talking about future plans?

Does anyone have insights re xiaotom's first question?

Great! Thanks for clearing more of that fog!!

Hi, I think your teacher was not so correct, for example, "今天我要说得详细一点。" "我要唱得响亮。“ But 地 is more common when talking about the future plans.

地can be omitted when the ADJ and verb are both two syllables.

Good questions. Does someone from CPod know?

The dust is settling in my brain. It makes sence:

1. objective/narrative statement + 地 + verb

2. verb + 得 + result/subjective comment

Remain some minor questions:

1. Is there a tendency to use the 地-construction, when the 得 - construction would be too complicated - eg because there are additional objects and/or complex verb-constructions?

2. Was my teacher wrong when he said that the 地 - construction is preferred when talking about future/plans? (my examples: 他打算认真地学习 or 我要努力地工作) Maybe it's because when talking about plans/the future it is less likely to comment but usual to just narrate??

3. Can the 地 sometimes be omitted? (我要努力工作)

I think I can see through too. I was going to comment more, but I think adding my voice would just be adding noise. Very useful. Thanks xiaotom and brick.

I can also see the first few stars through the fog. Great help!!

PS. Re: my comment on sentence 4 above - it seems that 地 is used because 好好儿，as a reduplicated phrase, is an adverbial of manner - not because it is describing the action of a single verb.

Complicateder and complicateder :)

With regard to xiaophil's two examples, from the above it seems that:

1) Here we have a comment on the way the speaker spoke.

2) Here we have a statement/narration on how the speaker spoke.

After all this I think my fog is lifting a little !

xiaotom: it's a learning opportunity for us all !

I have also found that :

地 (marks adverbials of manner) emphasises the actual manner in which the action is carried out and the speaker recounts it, whereas

得 (introduces complements of manner/result) emphasises the manner in which the action is SEEN to be carried out and the speaker COMMENTS on it.

So, the 得 construction produces a topic-comment sentence, whilst the 地 construction produces a subject-predicate narration.

This I found in 'Intermediate Chinese' by Yip Po-Ching and Don Rimmington.

Some examples:

他在认认真真地学习 He is studying conscientiously (ie. he has conscientiously adopted this attitude). This narrates what happened on a particular occasion.

他学习得认认真真的 He is studying conscientiously (ie. he is SEEN to be doing so) This is a comment.

他好好地跟她说 [narrating] He spoke to her nicely (ie. was not abrupt/unkind)

他说得很好 [commenting] He spoke well (ie. what he said was clear/convincing)

Thanks so far for all the input!

That's interesting. I'm kind of half doing something else right now, so I can't wrap my mind around it. Will be back.

Yes -

我妹妹吃得很慢 My little sister eats slowly

他的四声说得不准 He speaks his tones inaccurately

他慢慢地把门开开了 He slowly opened the door

他没有好好儿地做 He didn't do the job well

你得好好儿地准备功课 You'd better prepare your lessons well

(p. 79)

In example 4, 没有 seems to go with 做, not 好好儿，so we still have a verb phrase rather than a single verb.

Oh boy, now I'm confused. Did Schaum give any examples?

Looking at Schaum, 地 seems to be used to describe the manner in which an entire Verb Phrase is performed, as opposed to 得，which describes how a single verb is performed. Is this a partial explanation ? Can 地 be used with a single verb ?

Thanks. Yes, I think I'm getting the nuance!

This is how I see it:

1. 说得很好 = 'Well said', or perhaps 'You said it very well'

Situation: somebody just said something, and now the person is complimenting that somebody

2. 很好地说 = (he/she/they) said it well

Situation: narrating something that happened

First of all, I don't know if I'm right (but I think I am). Assuming I'm right, though, do you see the distinction? I believe context is key here.

I have just consulted a Chinese friend. He says that 意外 sounds very strange and he would hardly use it in such contexts and in spoken language in general. Can you confirm that?

明白了。谢谢!

意外 is a noun: 这是一次意外。zheshi yici yiwai.

意外 is a adjective：

在上海，我意外地遇到了老同学。 zai shanghai ,wo yiwai di yudao le lao tongxue.

我真意外能在这里遇到你！ wo zhen yiwai neng zai zheli yudao ni!

Thanks! 竟然 is indeed the word I was looking for! Can you tell me under what circumstances 意外 would be used (the dictionary also gives "unexpectedly")

Learning by making mistakes...

Thanks. Yes, they are my sentences, so no guarantee at all about how correct they are. Probably not very... I keep on checking.