I can't stand Chinese music

Does anyone have a list of Mandarin songs that are not pop please?   Something like good old school reggae, something with African or Latin jazz beats?  At least some alternative rock pleasant to listen to?  Or even something like Beyond, but singing in Mandarin?  

I really enjoy some music from all over the world and many different genres. Middle east tunes, stuff from India, South America, Caribbean, African, etc.  However, for Chinese, I am always so disappointed when I try to find something more than mando-pop!! :(    I wish there were more variety of mandarin music so we students of Mandarin could use it as a fun way to practice.

I might be biased but I feel like if I was a foreigner learning Spanish or English I would never even take classes, just use the tons of awesome artists and music variety to learn the language!! 

The good news is that if your tones are atrocious you can just sing instead of talking.

I used to have a girlfriend who sang Cantonese opera.

I loyally attended all performances she gave, but I have to tell you, I never GOT it!

I still have some recordings of some of her performances, but I never listen to them any more

Simonpetterson, 停止听歌词吧？就没问题！我连英文歌词都不听。But you have to be careful you don't end up singing along to Divinyls' songs at inappropriate moments.

是吗？“xiaohu”,are u chinese?关于楼主的问题，我不太清楚你听的是什么歌。的确有些歌不清楚，但还有很大一部分很清楚很好听的…BTW,im chinese

hehe,just caught up with this thread and I had the same reaction as pretzell 差不多 when I read the words "private instruction"...whoa..a whole year of private instruction! Don't get me wrong...I think that's awesome and definitely the way to go if you can afford it.What an opportunity..yeah go for it mate.

Hey,great link btw..interesting the difference between canto music and mandarin.I think my tone recognition is still so poor that it has never bothered me,but I remember early in the piece puzzling how they could express the tones in the songs and they certainly didn't sound as discernable as they do in speech.

Hi simon

Thanks for the site. I heard before it's usually "writing lyrics before writing melody" when writing a song in Cantonese, as opposed to songwritings in non-tonal languages, and this makes it easier to get more natural and precise tones that go well with melody lines.

I also like the theme song from "Happy Goat and the Big Bad Wolf".

Here's the conclusion part of the "study" I linked to:

The impressionistic observation that modern Cantonese songs tend to preserve the relative pitch levels and pitch contours of lexical tones is borne out. Furthermore, the effect of foreign melodies and foreign phrases is negligible. Tempo is the only important factor in affecting the tone-melody interface. A loss, or partial loss, of pitch contours occurs on rising tones in faster-paced songs. Nevertheless, crucially, the loss does not result in tonal mismatches.

The same results do not hold for modern Mandarin songs, where neither relative pitch height nor pitch contours are sacred. This can be demonstrated with a simple example. Figure 4 shows the narrowband spectrographic tracings of the first line of the Happy Birthday song read in (a). In (b), the words are sung to the well-known English tune, "Happy birthday to you." The lexical tones are completely obliterated in (b). Corresponding lyrics do not exist for Cantonese, precisely because the words not only need to convey the desired message simply and naturally, but they must also form a sequence of tones that harmonizes with the melody.

I think you might have gotten the wrong impression from that. I'm certainly not going to do actual fighting, and I don't have anything against contemporary wushu per se. It's a fine art form, but it's not the art form I've devoted a significant portion of my life to. To me, contemporary wushu lacks the martial aspect, and sanshou/sanda lacks the art. I want it all.

Anyway, back to music. Apparently, Cantonese songs often match tones to melody, but Mandarin songs don't seem to do that, which is, I think, what my brain is rebelling against.

I wish Mandarin songs would take up this custom. I can't help feeling that Mandarin is taking the easy route here. Composing with the tones in mind would certainly be more difficult, but I'd have more respect for the songwriters who pull it off well. Also, my brain wouldn't feel like the singers are mangling their own language so much.

well, remember, its unlikely we're going to invade Beijing on our horses and engage in hand-to-hand combat that might actually mean life and death.  The Shaolin Temple as I thought it existed may be gone, but so is the lifestyle where I made my living fighting as a way of life (not counting boxing, mixed martial arts, etc.). I'd rather do Kung Fu as a hobby, than actually having to fight.  One day, my body will fail me.

Also, I've yet to see giant schools that aren't all about modern wushu. They're all satin pajamas, acrobatics and tinfoil swords. Forms without application. Any fighting practice will be sanda/sanshou. I looked into many schools when I first decided to go to China, and they were all like that. It's not what I'm after.

That includes the Shaolin temple, I'm afraid.

i've calmed down.

Actually, your reasoning makes sense. Private instruction can be way more efficient, especially when you're motivated to learn.  Plus, if you've found your gig, go with it.  I think I was remembering all the commercials I saw in Lanzhou for trade schools that included kung fu instruction. But that was Gansu Province anyway, and you're right, the giant schools are a modern invention.

Pretzel: Well, as authentic as that experience would be, private instruction is just more ... efficient. A lot of teacher-student interaction makes the learning a lot better. And anyway, the large kung fu school thing is only authentic if you look at the last century or so. And with Wing Chun, it's never been the norm.

So, yeah, private instruction. In China, I'm rich, so I might as well take advantage of it. :)

correction

as long even for foreigners as they are written using familiar words

even for foreigners as long as they are written using familiar words

Tones in Chinese songs is just a mystery for me. Cathy, a native Chinese girl, told me before that she sometimes has difficulty understanding what a singer is saying in Chinese, but I think there is more or less the same problem in any language.

Actually it's not so difficult to read Chinese lyrics written with pinyin (and without tone marks) as long even for foreigners as they are written using familiar words, such as 爱你，离开，and 永远. How about Cantonese songs? Cantonese has six to nine tones, hehe.

I probably still count as among the tone challenged.  So, I live in a glass house on this topic, but I think the rythm of Chinese is very fitting for some kinds of music.  (an example: MC Hot Dog <差不多先生〉）

Changye Bodhisattva, what does Chinese music have to do with Kung Fu? :) I was ranting about kung fu!!!

I often listend to Chinese pop music before, but not so often now, because I got tired of them, which have weak characteristics. Chinese songs, especially ballades, all sound the same to me, although I agree that they are very beautiful. Nowadays I only listen to 邓丽君 (Teresa Teng), my best favorite singer!

whoa, I thought you were going to take kung fu with 1000 of your closest friends, sleeping in unheated rooms, a measly shower once a month, doing menial dogwork when you're not practicing martial arts, eating bitter as you purified your heart and turned your body into hardened steel, and a lethal weapon.  Private instruction? Private instruction? Private instruction??!?!?!

Oh, and no joke about Beijing Opera.  I think it's the musical instruments. It's almost like, "they can't be serious...."

I should have known this would turn into a discussion of MandoPop. :)

Pretzel: I won't have any kung fu classmates. I'm getting private instruction. Well, most of the time. Occasionally there will be another foreigner there, but no Chinese students.

Anyway, there is some pretty good music out there in Mandarin. I dig 谢天笑, for example, though I've only heard two songs: 我不爱你 and 约定的地方. Both pretty good songs. They don't sound terribly broken to me, language-wise. The first one sounds pretty descent, since the melody often follows the actual tones, more or less. The second one sounds worse, though. the stress on the 的 in the chorus sounds pretty weird.

I can't do links from home (the buttons don't show up), but here are the URLs to the songs:

1: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjUzMDA5NDA=.html

2: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTEyNjg3OTA0.html

Actually, I like "The First Snow of 2002"

Actually I shouldn't make sweeping generalizations.  I do like some modern Chinese and Taiwanese music.

S.H.E. - Some okay tunes. （比如，“你最近还好吗”）

齐秦 - Some great ballads (比如，“我绝不放手”)

光良 - More great ballads (“第一次” 就是最好听的)

王力宏 - Pre 2003 music was great! （最好听的就是，“如果你听见我的歌”）

simonpettersson, Chinese music as a category is so broad, i'm sure you'll find something you like.  So unless you are really closed-minded, my take is that you'll end up liking some tunes by Chinese artists, and hating some tunes by Chinese artists. If you're lucky, one of your kung fu classmates will have some tunes that will blow you away, and you'll be hooked for life.  From what little i've seen, most of the Kung Fu schools don't have TV for you to watch the constant daily stream of singing/singers.  I'm not a big fan of that.

As Calkins says, Chinese music is great listening practice (if you think that native speakers always use the tones you are learning you are greatly mistaken.)  It is repetitive and usually quite clear (useful for learners) and it is relevant because native speakers enjoy these songs.  But if you don't like it you don't like it.

Traditional music - I don't know whether many Chinese themselves understand what is being sung (they have subtitles at the opera.)  But I find some of it exquisitely beautiful.    

When you get to China you'll find yourself bombarded by music and noise in general (unless you are ensconced in a monastery.)  Get ready !!!..

:-) 

cy38250

我很喜欢中国的古典音乐尤其是，“月光下的凤尾竹”。我特别喜欢有葫芦丝的音乐啊！

as a chinese, I do not suggest you listen  to the song of JAY周杰伦，expecially his Modern Mando-Pop music，we native chinese can not understand it either~

you can try some chinese classical music,maybe you will like it~

I like some of the Chinese pop music that isn't of the Rap/R&B variety. I'm a huge fan of F.I.R., for example. They remind me more of Japanese pop than Chinese pop, though. I'm pretty sick of ballads too. Trying to find a non-ballad on baidu is like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles.

simonpettersson

我很爱中国的音乐！

Just not MODERN Chinese music.  Modern Mando-Pop that expecially the kind that comes from Taiwan is an absolute abomination!  I love everything about China EXCEPT the music.  It's not got anything to do with the lanaguage, it's that everything is R&B / Hip-Hop derived, uncreative, wannabe American/Western trash. 

American music isn't any better. I despise it too.

Let's hope a new decade ushers in a new 时代 of music.

I dislike Chinese music (in general) for the reason you made clear you don't dislike it.  I don't dig the fluff unless it is ironic.  More and more I am finding exceptions to my "I dislike Chinese" music rule, however.  As for the tone thing, I never had a problem with it.

Good luck on your quest to find a like-minded person on this topic ;) 

Pretzellogic: I'm sure I'll warm up to Chinese music as I get familiar with hearing it. It just struck me as a weird phenomenon, how my brain made the connection between spoken Mandarin sans tones (bad Mandarin) and sung Mandarin (which is of course not bad Mandarin, but sounds like it to my ears).

Mao4cat: For my next trick, I shall demonstrate how you are all fools for studying this silly language!

Joking aside, I think some things in Mandarin are rad to the bone and other things are less so. They're all my personal opinions; please don't take it to heart. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I apologise if I have made it sound like these are universal laws of right and wrong. I spend many hours a day studying this language—I would not do so if not for a profound love for it.

After telling us "巧克力 (qiǎokèlì, chocolate) - not awesome - sucks", you are now complaining about music in Mandarin - "sounds like badly pronounced Mandarin".

What is next?

Y'know, I'm in danger of starting to like Beijing Opera.... and to think it used to drive me crazy....not sure what to make of this. 

Please note that I mentioned specifically that I'm NOT saying that "Chinese 'fluffy pop' is very boring with little creativity". I have nothing against fluffy pop, in any language. And the music in Cantonese or other Chinese dialects that I don't understand is not a problem, of course. But music in Mandarin, to me, sounds like badly pronounced Mandarin.

I agree that most Chinese "fluffy pop" is very boring with little creativity.  But I disagree about Chinese singing sounding bad.  Actually, I think it can often be quite beautiful.

Ever listen to 王菲？ Singing doesn't get much more beautiful than that, whether she's singing in Mandarin, Cantonese, or without tones.

And 周杰倫, even though you can't understand a word he's singing, makes some pretty incredible music!

Even without the tones, in general I think the sounds are very 好聽....the qi's, the ch's and sh's, x's, etc. etc.

And it's still a great tool for learning Chinese, tones or not.