Worrying developments on Praxis language

Henning

Perfectly put!

It is the consistent, regular podcasts that make Praxis so appealing and successful. They are the core of Praxis.

My niece is moving to Costa Rica next year so I have been recommending Spanishpod to her. Three lesson a week isn't good, but if there were just the one, I wouldn't bother recommending Praxis to her.

The amount of new, regular lessons suggest that daily learning new material is the way to learn. Which it is.

I sincerely hope that daily podcasts are not sacrificed here for improvemnets elsewhere on Chinesepod.

My sister got a Spanishpod subscription from me - and the last Christmas promotion came with 6 months of Frenchpod that I handed over to my wife. I now adviced both to quickly download all materials. I am definately worried they might disappear soon. Lesson frequency is a signal.

Churning out lessons daily is the foundation of the Praxis approach. People neither come here for the (growing?) grammar guide, the Pinyin Guide, nor for the nifty user interface. These are necessary complements but a cut in lesson publication is a cut to the heart.

If CPod would reduce its lesson frequency to one per week I doubt that the service would stay alive for long. Even the most loyal customers have to acknowledge that there is competition out there now.

A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine asked if I knew any good language schools in London because he wanted to take up French again. I suggested he try FrenchPod, but he said he'd rather just have lessons because he didn't have the discipline for podcasts. And to be frank, I'm sure it wouldn't be very difficult to find adult French courses, I am sure most local colleges run one, whereas you'd be hard-pushed to find a high-quality Mandarin course.

I have always thought they were really struggling over at Frenchpod by the few comments against the lessons many of which were the broadcasters' themselves.

In addition to my theories above as to why it hasn't caught on, ie about the availability elsewhere of mature French courses and teachers, I would agree with Goulnik who questioned the credibility of French from China delivered by an American (and a Frenchman).

I also wonder whether we Chinese learners are a special breed who can adapt to the internet!

It is a shame though!  I would have liked to listen to the advanced and media podcasts for interest - and might have even paid!

user150509

The FrenchPod method was really working for me, but I am not going to support it anymore. Initially there were 5 podcasts a week in a mixture of levels, now you get only 1 a week with emphasis on the lower levels, leaving more advanced users essentially funding the free newbie lessons and getting nothing in return. They are not offering any refunds. What we feel over there is a complete lack of transparency. We are essentially being ignored and nobody has even bothered to answer to the paying customers' comments regarding the issue.

I am a fan of CPod and I doubt the same is going to happen over here, but I question the business ethics of Praxis.

Bits, pieces and words.  Those are the classifiers that can be used to enumerate advice.  Bits and pieces work for information as well.

A lot of people make a similar mistake with 'information'.

You can't have a plural or say one information.  You have to have 'items of information' or similar.

Thanks for the information! That was new for me. I would have followed the governator here - probably because we share a mother tongue where "Ein Rat" is not only perfectly correct but also common...

One measure word for 'advice' is piece, as in 'two pieces of advice'.

I can't think of any others that will do.

Hi sydcarten

but you can't have
one advice,
two advices,
three advices etc.

Unless you are the Governator Arnold Schwarzenegger, who famously bragged that he would give his opponents in a weightlifting competition "the wrong advices!"  ;-)

And that is an example of measure words, or classifiers, in English.

OK, here's something.

The word 'advice' is never used in a plural form.

It is an uncountable noun, like 'water' or 'money'.

You can have:
'some advice'
or 'more advice',

but you can't have
one advice,
two advices,
three advices etc.

Why does Praxis/CP say in their Terms and Conditions nothing about compensation if they reduce or cut their service?

@Viviam, check out www.englishpod.com

I want to improve my English .我想提高我的英语...

I am a Chinese..Could you give me   some advices.

Thank u.

Yep, I'm sure that will be helpful.  Actually, with some slight improvements and adjustments on the current ability the form lesson sets, couldn't you delegate some of this to the community?  Maybe have a contest - best "Ele to Int transition program" where people try to form a good set of 10-15 lessons from both levels that bridge the gap.  Or "best Chinese Culture Lesson Set" "...History" etc, etc.  And then feature them promimently so people find them.

The community has already been generatating these sorts of things (probably the exact ones I named have already been done), but getting lots of submissions, and then interjecting some quality control, by selecting the best, and then presenting these selected ones to users, might achieve some good results.

John,

Makes a lot of sense;best of both worlds,and there is still the freedom to choose to approach it in whatever way it suits one best.

user150509,

I said (with reference to all the LanguagePods):

They will all be getting more attention with regards to course structure, all within a fully customizable modular approach.

When you create a sequential course, you're largely locked into that sequence. When you take a modular approach, if it is done well, you've got a nearly infinite choice of possible sequences. These near-infinite choices are open to ChinesePod users now, but the problem is that most users would prefer a recommended optimum course of study.  For many users, it's too much work to do it on their own, and they're often insecure about "doing it wrong."  With our modular approach, we can offer an optimum course of study using our existing content, and we can even customize it to the individual user's preferences.  This is what we are working on (for all LanguagePods).

Simonpettersen, I learn languages through patterns, and patterns usually have rules governing them. I don't particularly want to learn the verb "to be" in x different podcasts for every single possible conjugation. Just doesn't work for me.

150509

my opinion: you will not be disappointed. It was good when I got here and it has only gotten better.

user150509, I'm not John (and I've been blasted before for answering questions directed at Cpod), but I'd say go with Clint.

There really are no guarantees in life, and there are no free lunches.  Sometimes it just takes a leap of faith.  If it's something you see value in, go for it.  If you're too concerned about potential changes, look somewhere that might better suit your specific needs.  Cpod (and the other pods) won't be for everybody, but I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a similar learning method with the type of guarantee you're looking for.

I can say that Cpod's (and Praxis') history and reputation speak for themselves.  The majority of people here would probably agree and say it's a great place without much risk.

John said:

... the other Pods ... will all be getting more attention with regards to course structure ...

And I thought the xxxPods should be used without any structure, just "Learning on my terms". That seems to be a new paradigm here!

As I wrote before, I am an aspiring ChinesePod customer.

After reading all this and after lurking into the other xxxPod discussions, I am not very sure whether I should subscribe.

How can I be sure that I receive the current amount of podcasts in the future?
There seems to be no service guarantee.

As Clint Eastwood once said:

If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster. 

@mike

I found your comment about learning Chinese in England interesting - quite a contrast with Aust.  Sydney is a great place to learn (if you must be outside China) there is such a pool of good Chinese teachers, as well as a large Mandarin speaking population.  I wonder if it is our laws (we are such a regulated society) - to teach in NSW at the 'technical college' level where many people learn languages you must be a qualified teacher.  At university it is different, but I think competition ensures that all teachers are qualified.  One of the surprises for me with CP was that you can learn from a non-Chinese. 

Another observation - CP serves a number of different markets.  I daresay though that for a majority of learners, CP is a supplement rather than the primary learning medium.  Anybody relying just on CP would face several challenges.  Here's a possible 'career path':

A. start with CP to get a feel for the sound of the language - one year (followed by a trip around China listening)

B. proceed to a formal course with listening, speaking, grammar, and reading.  where else could you experience the joy of Chinese 听写 (dictation) ；-） - say three years, or eighteen months in China (because it is that much better).  No time for CP; if you are doing it right you would have no time.

C. private classes with focused goals, supplemented by CP lessons & CP community life - for the rest of your life?

I agree that new lessons are a big part of what makes ChinesePod fun and relevant.

There does come a point, though, when there are so many lessons in the archive that more attention definitely needs to be paid to helping the user find the optimum path through this content, and to addressing other weak points in the service.  ChinesePod has actually been at this point for a while.  Are the other Pods there yet?  You could make that argument.  They will all be getting more attention with regards to course structure, all within a fully customizable modular approach.

Henning

Well I agree that new material helps the vital fun factor to keep us going.  However, do you really expect Cpod lessons to cover all known Chinese words and all possible subjects?

Surely once one has reached an advanced level, then one has enough basis to develop by reading the media, and listening and watching television and videos, without the need to spend money on purpose built lessons.

However I have not reached that level yet :-(.  There was a time when I tried to master every intermediate lesson.  Now I am way behind with Upper Intermediate (and Advanced) lessons and could spend years trying to catch up the existing material.

There is probably a balance somewhere, where improvements to the service are alongside some new material and ideas....

I am sure that in the future service reductions will happen at ChinesePod too - so the best for you is to read carefully the terms & conditions of ChinesePod & Praxis:

All products and services, their contents, availability, and pricing are subject to change at any time with or without notice.

It says nothing about compensation if they reduce or cut their service. So the best customers can do for their own money is to order only a Monthly Subscription!

You may cancel the Monthly Subscription at anytime.

So you know for what you are spending your money month by month.

And if you are not happy with all this:

Any claim relating to, and the use of, this website and the materials contained on the website is governed by the laws of the State of Delaware.

Maybe you have a chance to get some money back there ;-) ;-)

I noticed that CPod has seen a lot more attention in the last 5 months. The less blood is sucked from unhealthy xPods the better. 

Although I understand the "economies of scale" rationale behind it (if it works that is), I have never been a particular friend of the xPod-approach. It leads to a uniformity that just is not compatible with the specific nature of learning Chinese. There is no uniform approach suited for all those languages and there is no uniform platform either (How many characters do you need to learn for French?). 

Mike: Regarding the number of lessons I absolutely disagree. It is the ever increasing number of lessons that still sets CPod apart. And those new lessons are my daily impetus to continue learning.

Besides, I continuously encounter new words and phrases that definately haven't been introduced here (yet). And I am not talking about "Archeopterix" but fundamental phrases and even common function words.

I agree, though, that the number of possible lesson subjects is limited. My estimate for the upper bound lies somewhere around 2,885,773.

I learned French by lots and lots of input and that's the way to learn a language (like Ken emphasised in the early Cpod lessons). Memorizing verb endings is the stupid way around. You need to get them automatic, which you do by listening to them in context again and again. Also, people who want to maintain, rather than attain, an advanced level of for example French, cannot do it by indefinitely rehashing old material. We want fresh stuff.

virtual learning notwithstanding, relying on a Shanghai-based outfit to learn Italian, French or Spanish is still a leap of faith. Somewhat lacking context if you ask me, to use a word Ken will relate to...

ChinesePod is healthy, growing, and has lots of great changes in the pipeline.  Calkins is right that each language is very different.

I don't profess to know exactly what's going on or the reasons,but I do know what they are saying the rationale is,and both mikeinewshot and sebire's comments would tend to support their rationale which is something along these lines:

They are saying that there are already heaps of podcasts that have been produced but what learners are needing help with are both structure to their learning and help with grammar etc,so they are producing less podcasts in an effort to focus more on new features to support that and more staff time to support the learners.Yeah,the boards on the other languages are a lot quieter [such a shame] but I get the impression it is still only a tiny fraction who bother posting [do people get shy after they see others who get personal attacks? ..dunno,but probably several factors]

I don't think that the 'other Pods' can be compared with ChinesePod. 

Cpod has been around for 4 years, the others are going on what, a year maybe?

Cpod started out small, a few people in an old factory.

Cpod started out with investment money (and probably Ken's, Hank's, etc. own money).  The other pods are more than likely (like RJ said) funded by Cpod.  That can't last forever of course, so then cost-cutting measures must happen.

Cpod has been slowly (I use that loosely!) built up, both in staff and user base.  It takes a while to get the word out, especially with such competitive languages like French and Spanish.

I can understand the frustration of fewer lessons being published, but no one can expect the other pods to be in the same league as Cpod, at least not for a while.  And like others mentioned, maybe they never will, given the dynamics and markets for those languages.

mikeinnewshot

All my brothers, sisters, friends, myself, all learned french at school here in the UK. The local college always has french courses running. The local book stores without fail have french courses on the shelves.

You're right, Mandarin is different. This year was the first year the college ran a Chinese course... a one-off six week course. 

The UK education system announced last year they plan to introduce Mandarin into the curriculum due to China's ever growing importance in the world, though no sign of it yet.

I somewhat agree based on my experience of chinese school as a kid. Going to learn French at secondary school was a revelation - people actually understood the language and had teacher training, whereas the Chinese school teachers were well-meaning volunteers. Saying that, at university I had a really good Chinese teacher who had clearly been trained.

I am now going to be controversial I think!

Certainly in England the history of teaching French and indeed European languages is longstanding.  There are many trained native language teachers and books which combine grammar and context learning.  Well trained and experienced teachers are common who can guide students through the language.

Whereas in England I have not yet met a single real native Chinese teacher who understands how to teach Chinese.  I have searched and searched and all I have found is Chinese women living in England who are not qualified and indeed have no idea either how to teach languages or how to teach westerners.  For example, my first Chinese 'teacher' spent 6 weeks trying to teach pinyin to a group of people who understood alphabets better than she did.  She was amazed that the English could put a K together with an E and produce a KE sound!!  Yet another 'teacher' who had no idea of the simple rule for tone changes of 不 .  Her poor students must be completely in the dark.

So if you want to learn Chinese in England you have no good source of help - so Chinesepod is great.

But if you want to learn French you have many more excellent options, so you don't need to go to a podcast.

I think that French and stuff is harder to pick up than Chinese using this format, to be honest. I think it's the grammar. I spent lots of time at school learning verb endings and irregular verbs, which I suppose don't come through so easily in podcast format.

I agree with the above comments from others.  Certainly when I visited Frenchpod they seemed to have very few learners if the comments were anything to go by.  I was about the only one commenting on the advanced lessons.  (Actually I sent my CV in to apply for the host of Frenchpod, but they said they lost the application, so my judgement may be coloured with some sour grapes!)

Incidentally, I have always wondered about the business model and strategy of producing new podcasts for ever.  What is the point? For instance, on Chinesepod, if most of us mastered the lessons already there, we would be pretty fluent.  The cost and effort of producing new lessons could be channelled into improving the exercises, search function etc etc....

matthiask: 真勇敢!

What if ChinesePod reduces podcast frequency & reduces manpower, just to improve earnings??

If you subscribe, what are you buying? The status quo? Do you have to swallow reduced podcast frequency without compensation?

well, I took this moment to show my support with a 2 year extension but into ChinesePod premium subscription. Let's hope it stays the cashcow :)

Tim,

I have to agree. My guess is that Cpod is not only healthy but has been paying the bills for all of them.

timsls

"Praxis is like Microsoft, if Ninjas killed Apple" very funny :D

I think connecting such cutbacks to the global financial crisis may be a bit of a leap.;)

A more likely explanation is that FrenchPod and ItalianPod were never that great ideas for expansion.  Firstoff, these languages had their best days in the past.  Primarilly, English speakers now learn them to fill a language requirement in high school or college - which doesn't provide the strongest incentive to get really good, or to learn the kind of functional language that helps outside the classroom.  Of course there are exceptions...but compared to Mandarin?

Second, a quick google search confirms that there are many competing French and Italian Podcasts.  More competition means less customers.  Compare that to Mandarin, where Praxis is like Microsoft, if Ninjas killed Apple.

Now, SpanishPod has more of a reason to exist - but a quick google search confirms the existence of competition, and Praxis lacks its ChinesePod long-standing dominance in this market.  So, makes sense its doing better than the others, but still having some amount of struggle.

Honestly, I see no reason why this should cause any worry at all for ChinesePod.  If anything, it might cause a consilidation of focus on Praxis real core business - ChinesePod.  In law school, in situations like this with expansion into areas that weren't doing so well, we would call ChinesePod the "crown jewels" of the company.  Very doubtful there is any danger to it.

Of course, these judgments aren't informed by anything other than the above poster's announcment of cutbacks and a few google searches, so - could be I'm completely wrong about everything.;) 

I wouldn't worry about Cpod too much...the others may take a hit and possibly go down...but my gut feeling is that this is the "bread and butter" of praxis! meaning the main $$$ maker...they have too many addicted and loyal followers that will fork out the cash...even in tough times and when unemployed like me!! ha ha!

加油cpod!

The global crisis has arrived at Praxis.

After lurking into FrenchPod (quite silent there) I always asked myself how they make money there. So this is not a surprise for me.

As an aspiring CPod customer, I would be really interested how CPod podcasts would be affected by such cost reductions. What about the current customers, if Praxis reduces the number of lessons, will they get money back?

I just found the answer:

"I'm afraid the subscription extensions offered last time are not a part of these changes. Thanks for your patience and understanding."

Well, that stinks. I just upgraded to a Praxis Pass to be able to maintain my French. And I was hoping I'd get access to more languages in the future, so that Praxis could be a sort of one-stop shop for all my language learning and maintaining needs.