How to make friends with foreigner?

my thursday class is at not a proper school but a place started by people some 20 yrs ago who felt chinese students in japan should have more suitable job opportunities than washing lamian bowls late into the winter nights.  they started a 留学生 support organization at which students teach us chinese, at very good rates/hr and we get to take classes for low tuition.  i just read their latest newsletter, where some of the student-teachers were asked to share tips on acquiring a foreign language from their personal experience w/japanese (most of them are very good).  and one girl had said:  we were taught at school these famous words everybody knows--whenever, wherever and w/whomever, you must speak, speak speak!

i don't know how famous these words are exactly, or who we have to thank for them.  but if this is true, masses of hard-working students aspiring to become fluent in english have simply taken what has been preached them to heart and are earnestly trying to put it in practice.

tvan, sorry to be totally irrelevant but the word karma just leapt out from yr post (could be because it was not hanzi ...).  i'm not new-age but have become a synchronicity enthusiast. apparently without being fully aware of it i'm now constantly hopeful about/not yet so successful at meeting others ...

changye--don't know where you are from, but i always tell the chinese people here (tokyo area) who miss the inter-activeness of chinese people to try out good old 大阪 for their 多别人的管闲事. 他们真的不认生！ and they have this enormous anti-tokyo pride. so (saying this at the risk of giving the wrong impression of ourselves) where we're afraid of foreigners they may refuse to be, just to show us up.  i think chinese people and osaka are a good match (kansai dialect is also tonal too). but yes, quite true, we provide a nice contrast to china here in japan. 欢迎大家来亲自看看！

I've envied native English speakers for having no need to learn English as a foreign language, but judging from this thread, it seems that being a native English speaker is not always a good thing at least in China, hehe. If you really hate being viewed as a free "trial horse", I just recommend you visit Japan next time, where most people are very afraid of being spoken to by a foreign guy on the street. They would run away at full speed, saying "Solly, English, No!", even if you speak to them in Japanese! I guarantee that you are sure to miss Chinese people very much during your stay in Japan.

Maybe there is also another driver behind this. The concept of "friendship" itsself is a totally different one in China. This is also why my mother in law complained that Germany appears to be so "cold" to her - everybody has just very few friends. Unlike China where everybody wants to become your friend.

The Chinese standard variety of "friend" is not the intimate version we associate with the word in our culture. It is more a healthy business relation built on the bases of mutual interest.

Just like that collegue you come along with well, who you can have a beer with in the evening, and who you are willing to help out for free once in a while (and he is in the position to maybe return a favour later).

But that collegue is not your friend in our western sense. You wouldn't tell him your marriage or health issues or discuss worries and insecurities. And you are aware that this friendship is nothing that is rooted deep in the heart and that is going to last when you e.g. change your profession.

The Chinese "friendship" is probably much more widespread than professional relationships are here as the complete system is permeated by this type of connections - 关系. In China you are much more actively pressing to build such relationships for reasons of survival.

Of course there is this "real friend" relationship in China as well and sometimes one blends into the other. I just wonder how this reflects in the wording.

zhenlijiang, my brain doesn't subscribe to syncronicity but, obviously, my gut does. 

tvan,  i think you may be onto something.  with so much demand, maybe an appropriate place for exchange ought to be provided here (asking for more work again, i realize) so that the willing can find partners and those not interested would not feel annoyed.

btw do you subscribe to the notion of "synchronicity"?

我看上面的留言一点悲伤.  有中国人要学习英文而提高英语水平, 哪里有问题?  为什么叫他们 "Spammer/垃圾邮件的?  我的儿女跟这些 "垃圾邮件的" 同岁.  我希望他们能找个互相学习的同伴.  那里不合适吗?  花钱有什么关系?

当然我 CPod 的网友的意见不是这样, 而且面条说得不错.  但我不完全同意.  可能我看这些年轻的来学习英文, 我有一点儿的 "karmic" 的感觉, 希望如果我照顾他们对他们有礼貌, 也有外国朋友照顾我自己的孩子. 可能是个老头子的愚蠢的.

CPod language exchange, maybe? 

Yeah,

I too liked RJ's apples,but what kind were they.....Granny Smiths ????

@Bodawei,  Yes, and I especially like RJ's apples part ;-).

What is the thing that frustrates her the most and what does she like the best?

My brother and sisters are teachers in Europe, they can share stories about over involved parents: I tell you!

@chantelle, miantiao, pete

this is such an interesting discussion (minus the spammers)

the PMs with personal details - where do I go to get them?  Just kidding.. 

Interesting in part because just today I was 'talking' with our daughter about the Chinese education system. It drives her crazy at times.  Some of the above discussion made me smile because it is so familiar (eg. 'language partners' behaviour.) 

But we've been reminiscing about how our school days in the West provided risk, even those opportunities to fail. The school/uni system has changed - parents are now over-involved.  Kids are inundated with extra-curricular activities.  Frightening. At uni double degrees have become the norm.  The Chinese and Western systems are converging. Now the 'risky' approach is cutting edge education provided by the educational fringe - captured by a kind of intellectual elite.

@miantiao:

oh,my god!pay money? i thought that this is a place where foreigners learn chinese,just a forum(论坛）。sorry,i have a lack of understanding  of the website. i always throught the google kingsoft(谷歌金山词霸）into the website.

误打误撞！

 

@小帆

说得好！我也不否认。

说实在就是很自然的行为，大家都想要提高外语水平，谁敢说不曾就因为想要多练习口语而交往过？

可是，这里是个学习中文的网站，还有得付钱。于是目的就是来到这里学习英语的人才不公平，一定要提供学习中文的贡献。

我看帮帮初级学生对你是最有用的学习英语方法，比如；提供语法说明、纠正句子。可多练习写英文。初级和初级高课程里面得写英语，要是写中文就得提供拼音和英文翻译。

不用好好反思自己吧！挺喜欢你这么好的人来到这里互相学习。

我不否认有些中国人和外国人交往的原因是想学英语，但是也有很多其他原因的。希望Amandamo不要多想了，如果真的只是利用你来学英文，这种人不理他也罢。

不过，看了你的文章以后，我也会好好反思一下自己。

miantiao- good points and I tried to raise my son the same way. He has turned out more mature than I in some respects. I have to agree that the system in China does restrict development at times. They seem to have been raised in a bubble. Some are clever enough to overcome it more quickly than others. 10 years behind - maybe not the most accurate way to say it, but there is a difference.

Chanelle - balance is the key. Forbidding is not the way, I have eaten my share of "apples". A good discussion that results in a mutual conclusion that something is probably not a good idea goes much further. Honesty above all else.

This is an interesting discussion, but I do not know exactly where I am standing myself. As much as I believe in freedom: If I am a mother I would allow my kid/s to experiment (with alcohol / soft drugs etc. in a safe environment. Probably will raise some discussion, but I believe this is better than making it more attractive by forbidding it. Think: apple, Eve etc.
However, I also think restriction (in moderation) can be good and will teach that there are borders and built more character. So, a bit of both and for each person the right mix would be ideal.

"my inbox receives on average a few a week, in english, with physical attributes as well some of the time."

I'm gutted now mate, looks like you're ahead of me in this area as well! And that's with a skew-wiffy car as an avatar!

Seriously, that's fascinating to hear about your son, and good on you for being such a responsible parent.

I'd like to say more here but don't have time, (gotta fly out the door in a minute), but I can't resist remarking that even though the friendship-spamming is annoying, I do think it's partially about the difference between Chinese concepts of 'good manners/politeness' and the western variety. Westerners (yeah, rj, maybe especially us Europeans) can be rather cool and inhibited about getting to know others, especially on such a casual basis as: "Hello, I'm Chinese, let's make friends and learn from each other etc etc...", but to most Chinese it's natural to open up and even share iformation about others with each other in a very open way.

Oh and the thing about Chinese kids being 10 years behind western ones in terms of emotional/psychological development is spot on, there are many aspects of that which could be discussed.

Hi miantiao and chanelle

Teaching English at one of the most elite high schools in China gave me a chance to observe the Chinese education system.

In my opinion it is based on two homophones:　同化　and “童化.” The students were forced to assimilate and fit in with moral education classes, daily mass exercises in the courtyard, uniforms, and numerous other rituals.

They were encouraged to remain children (what I call 童化） by the overbearing teacher-parent complex. The kids' parents got involved at the drop of a hat and the students were given very little autonomy. They had none of the crazy adventures and made none of the stupid mistakes that mark high school and coming of age in the West.

There's a lot to be said for school uniforms. If the children were allowed to dress as they wished, their class differences would be even more painfully obvious. In other countries, uniforms reduce gang violence. Here, they would simply help put the focus back on studying and not on looking sexy or showing off your parents' wealth.

Like the Chinese I've spoken to, I have mixed feelings about the Chinese education system. It has obvious benefits for state control. But it is not helpful in producing well-rounded, independent, savvy global citizens.

@chanelle

incredible story!

you live in a neighbourhood similar to the one(s) i grew up in ;-P

seriously though, home invasions are common if the victim is known to have valuables and, or, cash stashed away. however, perps targeting foreigners are rare, so no need to go peeping out windows chanelle. keep your door locked when at home.

an interesting point your neighbour made though. generally speaking chinese kids lead a very sheltered existence, and many don't begin to understand the 'ways of the world' well into their twenties. many being cocooned by parents and long school hours.

i used to describe to students, both young and not so young adults, how my son at 15 spent three nights a week at home taking care of himself. contrary to causing deep psychological problems and juvenile deliquency, he is a well adjusted young man, unlike his adolescent father. further that he is completing an apprenticeship and going to school, and threw away his 'innocence' with gusto at 15 when his girlfriend was allowed sleep overs. he was taught responsibility sharing at an early age as well as work/reward paradigm -that if he wants things he has to work for them. he goes to the US next year on a football scholarship and will work to provide his pocket money.

i made a decision when he was born to answer honestly and frankly any questions he may have in the future, regardless of age, if he is asking them then he deserves an honest answer and follow up discussion.

our kids grow up quickly in the west,and are more socially savvy at a younger age in general. 

A few weeks ago I helped a university student (again) with her "cultural exchange class " (i.e. language exchange?). I learn a lot from the Chinese around me so I think it is nice to do something back. She said she was bringing a "camera man" and at that time I thought she was joking, but she was not and showed up with a fellow student to film the whole thing. She was so nervous that we had to do the interview three times and I think it was not prepared very well (I gave her many articles and background info, but she was not too interested in that). The only reason for the interview turned out to be “extra credit” :-).
The story does not end there. In my house I have some jewellery to send back home for my business and they had a look at it (I had no reason to hide it). When she left my house she told one of the guards of my compound (?!) that I sell jewellery at my house (which I do not I send it to Europe). That particular guard came up to my Chinese teacher a few days later with some silly excuse and lots of questions about my “business”: He knocked on the door and told my teacher to "move her car", because it was not allowed to park there. The strange thing is NO one ever parks his / her car in the right spot so I asked the guard WHY he asked that. Did the rules change over night? Why does my neighbour doesn't have to move her car? I thought that was just strange… When my teacher moved the car he asked her all sorts of things about “my business”. This I find typical Chinese: never ask directly :-). It took me a while to put the whole thing together: he only asked her that to inquire information about me after he heard the story from "the girl". One day later when I saw him: I asked him directly: why he wants to know all these things and he said he wanted to buy it. I do not know a lot about male security guards in China, but I do not often see them wear a lot of pearls. I told the guard that it is DIY stuff and I can give him my shopping addresses if he is interested (obviously he was not).
This last month, there has been an armed robbery in my compound, a kidnapping outside my compound and a burglary case with guards and a student involved in the compound next to me. My ayi was so nice to tell me all this on the day my husband left for a business trip. Needless to add I do not feel as safe and really ask myself:  why would the girl go to the guard and do that?
My ayi also knows her and told me later that she was only interested in me because of the language I speak and being a Westerner. It turned out she had asked her many times to come to my house for language exchange. That somehow still surprised me a bit I thought she liked me for who I was and were becoming more like friends and I was happy to help her with her school assignments. She also added: “Chinese university students are 10 years behind their western counterparts in “psychological development””. I found that a very interesting statement coming from a mother who has her own son in university. Next time: I'm less naive with language / cultural exchange and I am a bit more careful who I invite in my house :-).

Personally, I don't mind the occassional person asking for help.  However, I don't have people constantly asking for English lessons here in the States.  I'm sure that gets wearing for residents of China such as Miantiao and Sushan.  

Still, I think that polite refusals are in order.

RJ,

lol,You do make me laugh mate.I love that approach.I can just hear the cheers,and I'll drink to thats.

Re: "sometimes its nice to feel loved, even if it is a scam"

...well it certainly is more pleasant than receiving hate mail.Though there is a lot to be said for honesty/brutal truths,hehe.

barbs,

re the pm's - sometimes its nice to feel loved, even if it is a scam. :-)  As for the language pleas, like you, mostly I give them the benefit of the doubt.  I tend to make friends easily but I have noticed the Europeans and Brits are harder to approach without a reference of some sort. If they wont talk to me I  usually just say "F george Bush", and its beer all around. ;-)

Sure there are those that will just want to use you,but I tend to think most people have good intentions and believe in a presumption of innocence.Also language barriers can confound things.I'm always a little touched at an offer of friendship.Maybe I'm just naive too.

Hey,I've got some of those PM's too ,but never with the physical attributes.I guess avatars of old men and creepy dogs just doesn't cut it.

@henning, not too harsh at all, quite the opposite

I don't have a bad impression of Chinese people. I do have a pretty bad impression of friendship spammers, both the virtual and human flesh style. Thankfully they do not represent regular Chinese people, even if they claim to.

@henning

not really mate, i don't think you were harsh at all, just frank and honest.

my inbox receives on average a few a week, in english, with physical attributes as well some of the time. 

however, i really would like more chinese to take part in cpod, practicing written english as well as correcting poddies' mandarin mistakes, but as yet(and tina has proven it actually by not correcting my mistakes, and there are mistakes in what i wrote. i corrected hers!) most stay the week and move on to greener patures.

i sympathize with you guys!  but think of those personal solicitations as the price you pay for being way more attractive than me (or has something to do w/using your photo as your avatar?).

i've had ONE.  "a single girl" who wanted to know me better.  no descriptions of physical properties, age or anything else, just a name (not a chinese name, and one which sounded suspiciously ... ambiguous).

Henning

I was going to say, dont mistake naive for evil. its not her fault you got a bunch of pm offers -  and I thought I was the only one getting them :-) They lied to me.

miantiao, thanks for the support. But I was probably indeed a bit too harsh...

@Tina: 还有， 你不用怕我。 You don't need to be afraid of me.

@Tina

没得事，非写错不可进步。

我没说你呀，我说的是henning已经是这里网站的老朋友。当然晓得你是为新手。

哦 ，谢谢。我错了。

我英语很差的。都是在旁边边查字典边打字呢！！真的抱歉，错误一大堆。

还有，我是第一次来这个网站的！真的，我保证，我没有说谎！

@henning

说得真好！

上面的杂文指出他在中国所经历过有些意料之外的事情使他感到郁闷， 我个人也经历过。

@tina 你对henning说了  '好像中国人给你留了不好的印象，我有一点难过了’ 'it seems you have a very bad impact on the chinese people...' 还有， 这句的意思跟你想说的意思相反。更好应该说 ‘it seems you have a very bad impression of chinese people...'. 我才不相信，你是新来的朋友，一点都不认识他， 你觉得要是你说的确切他为何来这里的网站学习，而来的很久的时间。你也一句中文在这里都没写下来。说话要算话喽！

英文里不可说 impact，反而应该说impression.

@henning,You feel tough, really afraid of you! ! l

antony, I am in grumpy mode today. ;)

Over the weekend, this forum has been buried in this type of posts. Very distracting. Now contrast this with the helpful, friendly, and utterly unobtrusive way Cassie has contributed here.

BTW: Sometimes the hardcore version of the "做朋友， 互相帮助， 互相学习" post enters my CPod personal message folder - with descriptions of personal and physical properties. Obviously, a good figure and a general "healthy" physical condition without any inherited illnesses (!) foster an effective language exchange.

To have one or two true friends, I have been very happy.

@henning, I couldn't agree with you more.

Over the past two and a half years I've met many Chinese people who share a common interest, learning each others language. Originally our time spent together was based on learning, not friendship. Naturally though, a few have become friends, very good friends. That's how friendships work, and that's how they're meant to work.

Yes, if you learn Chinese in the course of difficulties, you can always ask me, there are my e-mail address. If can help   , I will be very happy.

 It seems you have very bad impact on the Chinese people, I am a bit sad.

Well, you will not make any friends here by flooding this forum with your spam messages. This type of behaviour certainly has the stale smell of begging and distracts from what we are all here for.

If you are really interested to meet other people and learn here, you are welcome to help us out with our day-to-day Chinese questions and bring in your voice constructively into the discussions. After a while you will earn first the respect and later maybe even the friedship of some of the users here.

i feel very shock on it ! i am from chinese,and i like to make frends.I like to make friends, but it is not based on interests. I think a lot of things we can not make generalizations, because they may be cultural differences, so cause different way of thinking.If you really have this kind of Chinese friends, I really am sorry.

I admit that I pay foreign friends want to improve my English, but not as you say to the use of foreign friends. I believe that the Chinese people is very sincere friend.

if you have question ,please  contact with me.

tinakellyczq2858@yahoo.cn

Going back to the original article, something written by 'Li Yang of Crazy English fame' might be expected to have an English-learning angle to the friend making, right?

The author has many Chinese friends and is not saying foreingers don't want to make friends with Chinese. He's saying that the ways some Chinese people try to make friends with foreigners are off-putting, and gave a few examples.

well thanks Amanda! As a 老外i do appreciate it when a Chinese person is genuinely interested in being friends with me...not just for learning English.

BUT the same thing can be said for us too! Beware of the 老外 that just wants to use you for conversation purposes. I have tried to be careful about this...So I have started online conversations with some Chinese that seemed interesting to me. But honestly, I have started talking to some for conversation reasons too. Eventually i have found that some really do become friends and others just fade away. Some I talked to once or twice and never really heard from again...but then there are others who have stuck and whom i talk to more than my own family and i consider them good friends!

I believe that if you are meant to be friends, then it will work out and each person will make an effort to call or email. The reason i know my friends are real is that they make an effort too. Relatiionships are all about giving and taking. If not, then you are just being used!

this article is writen by a foreigner .

After reading it ,i feel very shocked and know why some foreigner don't like make friend with chinese.

in my opinion ,the major reason is some chinese only want to improve their English by making friend with foreigner!

But every coins have two side.so i want to tell foreigners  that there are also have some chinese(like me) who really want to make friend with you and share their happy with you!they just want to understand you !!

                             a ordinary chinese:Amanda