Questions and Comments Option

darkstar94
August 16, 2012 at 10:23 PM posted in General Discussion

Just another random idea.  Give Poddies the ability to mark their posts as a question or a comment, that way people's questions can be found easier.  Have a comment feed and a question one, and maybe just a general one.  This has probably been suggested before.

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darkstar94
August 26, 2012 at 05:30 AM

I definitely don't think that comments should be policed, but I just think that a separate feed or even a separate Questions tab could be good.

This is all inspired from the website www.ultimate-guitar.com in which they have a place where songs are requested to be transcribed.  You can go through a list of them and look at which ones you want to do.  So if questions had a quick feed or something like that, it would give poddies more reason to answer people's questions.

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zhenlijiang
August 24, 2012 at 09:09 AM

Oh the cliquey-ness issue again (which I know wasn't darkstar's point).

I've always thought subthreads would be much more effective if they could be made smaller (= fewer comments showing in full). Often in these subthreads where contributors have become very engaged in a discussion on something that isn't strictly about language, individual comments can get long. And yes I've written very long ones myself (other poddies have even suggested I try to be briefer). I think it annoys people who know they have no interest in that subthread and just want to skip it, to have the page occupied by lines and lines of even two or three epic-length comments. I find scrolling to be more of a drag than Baba seems to, so to that extent I do sympathize with those expressing frustration because they really only want to see language related questions in the lesson discussions. This is even when I would basically read everything in the Discussion section of a lesson.

I realize CPod would have tried to strike a good balance with the number of comments to show. They tried to keep it click-free for shorter (up to 5 replies I guess) subthreads. Especially when such subthreads happen to discuss new vocab, or a grammar point, or an Expansion sentence from the lesson, that does make sense. Still though, having to click to open such a "highly relevant" subthread seems to me a painless trade-off for the benefits of collapsing the longer, more "generally relevant" ones that are annoying to some and even perceived as "private, unwelcoming space".

Suggestions for what to display: 1) The latest response only shown in full, even when the subthread is shorter than 5 replies total. 2) Show no reply in full, collapse the entire subthread. The avatar/username of each responding comment could be shown, and maybe even as much of the beginning of the comment as the space created by the avatar. 3) Show not even avatars/usernames, just "10 replies", to be clicked on to open. If a question raised or point made in the original comment interests you enough, just click to open the subthread. Not hard is it?

Changing what we see would be a relatively simple solution that would make some of these unhappy users happier. No need to get into trying to control what comments users should make, or police the community. Ugh. Like Baba said that has been tried before. And if staff currently don't have enough time to answer all the poddies' language questions why would they have the resources to police our comments for off-topicness?

The separate Questions tab idea makes a lot of sense to me, so I was surprised to see that even something like this could be considered to have a negative aspect. Guess everything does though, and some compromise always has to be made. If CPod could consider re-setting the subthreads I really think it would be helpful.

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bababardwan
August 21, 2012 at 10:30 PM

Darkstar,

I also like this idea...the highlighting of questions/separate tab for questions...always have. As you guessed and as has been alluded to in response above this was loudly and clearly suggested a good couple of years ago around the time of major restructure to the site...there was a great deal of discussion at the time. My reaction to this now was the same as Bodawei's above...I like it but I'm not optimistic...for 2 reasons...firstly because it was asked for previously [but thanks for raising it again...it does raise the chance from next to nil] and secondly because I can't help but wonder whether the whole missed question thing is a bit of a furphy. Of course it's dissappointing when your questions are missed, but honestly, if you and I can see the questions..which ones are answered and which ones are missed, so can everyone else. As nick above has referred to the Intermediate lessons as being a particular problem in this regard, I just went and checked on the latest Intermediate lesson to time myself how long it would take to identify the questions....for the latest it took me 49 seconds. However this was a "meta lesson"...not a typical lesson, so I went back to the Intermediate before it...it took me 8 seconds [and half that time was going back to the stopwatch and stopping it].

 

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darkstar94
August 26, 2012 at 05:24 AM

I hope it wouldn't turn out negative, I mean from my point of view it's not because I want them to feel inferior or anything, it just helps those people who want questions that they want answered, no matter who answers them.

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zhenlijiang
August 24, 2012 at 03:15 PM

oops Next time I'll let Baba tell everybody what Baba means. Sorry Chris. I'm good thanks for asking!

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bababardwan
August 24, 2012 at 01:06 PM

hehe, actually I hadn't thought of Xiaophil's group at the time, but after posting here about it I did subsequently recall Xiaophil's group and then thought "the still" but would clarify the differences. You don't miss a trick Zhen...almost beat me to thinking of something I should have thought of myself in the first place, hehe.

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chris
August 24, 2012 at 07:35 AM

Ah, got it Zhen. Must admit I only skim-read all the posts above so unfortunately missed that point. More haste, less speed and all that. Hope you're well, we haven't seen enough of you on the boards recently!

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zhenlijiang
August 24, 2012 at 06:10 AM

Hi Chris, Baba means "I Still Have a Question" to play off the name of Xiaophil's (successful) "I Have a Question" group.

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chris
August 24, 2012 at 06:01 AM

Ah, here we go:

http://chinesepod.com/community/groups/view/i-have-a-question-212

To be fair, it seems to have had some entries in the past couple of months, so maybe I was incorrect in my post above.

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chris
August 24, 2012 at 05:59 AM

I'm pretty sure there is already a "I have a question" group buried away somewhere in the archives. It never really got much traction if I recall correctly. I think the only way this group concept would work is if there was a link to it at the top of each lesson's homepage, similar to the tabs we currently have for discussion, dialogue, expansion, etc.

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bodawei
August 23, 2012 at 09:18 AM

Hi Baba

Having read all of the stuff above, I think I come out in favour of your Group idea, despite my reservations that you refer to. Reason being, groups are 'owned' by poddies, at least much more so than if a new tab for Questions was added. It doesn't completely remove the reservations, but it seems to me that the intent is clear with a group (in fact you have the opportunity to lay out the ground rules at the top) and it should not put untoward pressure on staff one way or another.

Actually, if it is a good enough idea and does not compromise their business model I would expect them to pick it up and make it official. Good work.

and also good work on picking up cultural references and trying a translation - it is funny how an English speaker has no problem with your translations but Chinese people may still be all at sea. I was talking to some people recently about the Phantom as in Phantom comics, and after a while we just gave it away. Maybe they have never been translated into Chinese, but even if they have it doesn't mean that it caught on. (My comment recently about Tin Tin likewise.)

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 06:33 PM

darkstar,

"Actually you making the group would be a pretty good idea, I mean for the regular question askers like me anyway"

...well as I've said it's not as good an idea as yours, but I considered it as it's something that we could set up ourselves. Why did I think of it and why did I hesitate so long? I thought of it for a few reasons....as RJ and podster alluded to above, to make it easier for staff to quickly identify questions. I did also wonder if this theory that questions are actually "missed" had some validity....and if questions were missed they could all be popped in one spot..the group...for a quick second sweep. Another reason is because poddies answer each others questions, but of course generally speaking these answers should be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes a poddie may be very satisfied with the answer but other times it may really require a teacher response for any level of confidence to be achieved. So it's possible a teacher may see a question has been answered and think..fine, it's answered and move on, when in fact teacher clarification would be very helpful. Often the poddie answer will be quite good and sometimes the teachers will confirm this, but this does not always happen. Also the answering poddie him/herself may become quite interested in knowing if they're on the right track and may just be speculating. So the purpose of such a group would be to clearly identify such questions which may appear answered but in fact are still hoping for teacher input. I think RJ's suggestion above of starting with @question and different colour text would make it a lot easier to identify questions, but this group could still catch this sort of situation for example, so they wouldn't have to be one or the other, but complimentary. Also, folk that didn't like the idea, wouldn't have to use it. Another reason I thought of the group is because, as you say, if you ask questions that don't get answered it is discouraging. So having all these good reasons, why did I hesitate so long and to date have still not created this said group? The answer is for the same reservations bodawei has expressed. While I thought it might be helpful for staff [and poddies] I didn't want it to be perceived negatively by them...didn't want it to have a nagging vibe, and as you yourself have expressed didn't want to be unfair or seem ungrateful. I want them to continue the great work they do in producing the awesome lessons they do and not be discouraged in doing so. So I'll give it some more thought, but I think it would have to be done carefully if at all. I wouldn't want it to turn into something negative.

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 06:03 PM

"JFK apparently borrowed this expression"

haha, yeah, thanks for picking up on that....I like to try and adapt a cultural reference and translate it on to Chinese on occasion and I sometimes wonder if something is lost in translation, hehe

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 05:56 PM

darkstar,

"Sure if you are deliberately looking for the questions then it's not really a problem"

when I read this I realised I hadn't really read what you'd originally posted carefully enough. I was thinking the whole purpose was so that questions were more easily identified for staff. In that vein my response to this would be that ..yes, but that's exactly what staff would be most interested in doing...deliberately looking for the questions [and of course they do get involved in the cultural discussions etc as well]...so if you say that's not a problem then this implies it's mainly for users benefit...ah which you do go on to say. Well, I think this is great of you and I once again agree it would be a good idea. I'm wondering how many poddies there are like you, who are at a high enough level to be able to help others, and are skimming the boards for questions only and aren't interested in the cultural discussions [this latter bit cutting the number down a lot as there are people like mark for example who is at that very high level and who does do a great deal to help fellow learners, but he also contributes to cultural discussions]. Tingyun springs to mind...while he is a social guy his posts are largely very academic. But anyhow, I still think its a good idea for both staff and poddies alike.

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Grambers
August 22, 2012 at 01:41 PM

Ah, beware of those who claim to be 'professional'. All professionals are just chancers who got a break. For some, the mantle of professionalism hangs heavy, prompting a lifetime of earnest knowledge-acquisition and somber reflection. For others, the mantle hangs as light a birthday suit, and prompts the holder of the appellation to parade around his environs, dishing out business cards and basking in his or her own brilliance to have been recognised, institutionally-speaking, as a 'worthy'.

All of which is what the point is not (and, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that this semi-rant on abstract concepts of 'professionalism' reflects my opinion on the worthiness, or otherwise, of Chinesepod staff, who seem jolly decent, on the whole).

I think you're within rights to shrug of the angel of conscience on your shoulder, who recognises the sterling work done by the Cpod to write, record and deliver daily lessons, and to indulge the nasty capitalist devil who whispers that he has paid his money and deserves his due. What I mean is that I think its up to Chinesepod to consider this issue closely, as it's clearly a problem for a good number of users. For my money, podcast teachers would do well not to end lessons by asking listening to get online and 'leave US a message, comment or question' if they know, or suspect, that nobody at Shanghai HQ is actually reading. At the very least they might consider tweaking the message to better reflect the nature of that online interaction.

I've benefited from getting a good deal of personalised feedback over the years, and for this I am grateful. However, would it be overly cynical of me to suggest that 'Team' feedback has declined since the roll-out of the Skype lesson service? Um.....probably (but not necessarily). Regardless, I think there perhaps needs to be a little more clarity in the relationship between users and staff. As always in life, expectations are all!

There's my two pennies worth, anyhow.

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bodawei
August 22, 2012 at 01:34 PM

JFK apparently borrowed this expression from his old headmaster George St John so it could be 100 years old plus - which prompts me to ask: what memorable lines did you learn from your headmaster?

Mine was fond of saying 'Do NOT use the word 'ratbag' boys! (We were rather fond of throwing this word around.) A ratbag is the lowest form of human being - they are lower that a rat. They are no better than the bag you put a rat into.'

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 09:55 AM

别问中文播客为了你能做什么,反而问你为了中文播客能做什么

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darkstar94
August 22, 2012 at 03:37 AM

Actually you making the group would be a pretty good idea, I mean for the regular question askers like me anyway.

I am caught in between thinking that it is unfair to ask this much of them (the staff) and between thinking that I have paid money so I shouldn't feel bad for asking. In the end, I don't really mind where the answers come from as long as they are correct. I DO have the means to find out the answers some way, but I just prefer ChinesePod staff because they are professionals. I like trying to help people anyway, so it's not necessarily about me wanting help but also for the more experienced learners to help the less experienced ones in a more convenient fashion i.e. through some of sorting system.

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 02:02 AM

Darkstar,

I just firstly want to repeat that I fully support your idea. I would also like to see it happen. In fact, while yours is a better solution, because I have seen that raised several times in the past and not come to fruition, I was only a month or two ago on the verge of creating a less good solution, in lieu of it. I was going to create a Group [which of course anyone can join] and call it "I still have a question". I was going to suggest that if one's question wasn't answered in a timeframe of say a week [or a day after a teachers sweep of the boards] then this could be highlighted in such a group via copy and paste [and maybe a link back to the original site of the question]. I realise this is far from ideal and yours is a much better solution, but I was tempted to see how it went. I was still contemplating it when your post here popped up. I could be wrong but I'm really under the impression that it's not that questions are missed though, but rather they just have a finite amount of time to answer them as they are busy doing the fantastic job they do of creating the lessons etc so they just do the best the can to answer them in the limited time they have [and they do a great job with the questions they do answer]. If anyone's serious language questions are truly missed it might be mine as they might just see my name and move on , hehe. In the interim, one suggestion is to make sure that questions aren't buried in a subthread.

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darkstar94
August 21, 2012 at 11:05 PM

Sure if you are deliberately looking for the questions then it's not really a problem, especially through the recent of lessons where people don't comment as much. For me when I go through the community tab, I don't usually go past the first page, and usually there is just a lot of writing and stuff in which I kind of zone out to. But my point is is that it would be good if I was in a generous mood, I could just directly go to a questions tab and then just answer the odd question if I knew the answer. I know it sounds lazy, but I tend to skim and then if I see a short question that is simple to answer (especially for Newbie or Elementary learners), then I go just find it without having to go out of my way searching through different lessons.

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nicksymondson
August 21, 2012 at 08:07 PM

I would like to 3rd the suggestion. For me, often the discussion board on Intermediate lessons has become a general chat area often between a small group of subscribers. The majority of their comments have been nicely described by Grambers above so I don't need to repeat it. I am put off looking at the discussion board any more as I feel I am just intruding on their private space. I am really interested in reading about peoples feedback/questions on the lesson itself but nowadays I can't be bothered wading through the swamp of spurious posts. Lets keep the Discussion Board for feedback/comments on the lesson and put the general chit chat on one of the Community Boards where it belongs. CP just need put a note on top of the board telling subscribers what belongs on the Discussion Board and what doesn't. It would need a bit of policing to begin with to remove general chit chat but once the message had got across this policing would be minimal. Rant now over but seriously, it is a problem.

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bababardwan
September 01, 2012 at 08:06 AM

对了,听过

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bodawei
September 01, 2012 at 07:54 AM

Then the more recent Hairdressing lesson, forget the title. The hairdresser asks the 'old-fashined' customer if they have a 会员卡.

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bababardwan
September 01, 2012 at 12:04 AM

"会员卡 - I knew I should know what they were talking about but nup .. lost it. Then I walked out of the shop and recalled a lesson some time ago about these things"

对了,我差不多忘了提到那个“会员卡”的课程是“Airport Check-In Problems"

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bodawei
August 25, 2012 at 03:58 AM

'Do you follow it?'

I don't - I looked at the start out of curiosity but it is essentially a service for Shanghai residents.

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bababardwan
August 25, 2012 at 12:07 AM

"read something about this on either Allset learning"

..oh, I remember when John set up Allset learning, but have never thought to check out his website. Do you follow it regularly [if there are updates]?

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bodawei
August 24, 2012 at 02:39 PM

'Where did he say that? (about learning goals)'

There is a lesson somewhere about methods of learning, with Jenny I think. Sorry, I have a poor memory for sources.

I think I also read something about this on either Allset learning or on Sinosplice.

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bababardwan
August 24, 2012 at 01:21 PM

thanks mate

"John's plea to devise some goals and work towards them"

..not sure I've struck that. Where did he say that? I guess I should have some goals but I think I've bitten off more than I can chew trying to learn French and Hindi and whatnot at the same time, so just managing to keep my hand in really, hehe [ which makes me realise just how much time I've wasted in my debate above....that is one thing I must resolve not to do in future....I've realised that folk just have there own viewpoints, want things the way it will suit themselves best and stick to it, that you're wasting your time trying to point out the history and resolution of the problem...no-one listens. If CPod have something to say I might prick up my ears, but this debate has ended up being a distraction and a huge waste of time, much more of a waste of time than a little bit of scrolling entails]

"These community boards are, for many poddies I suspect, a substitute for immersion - almost like walking down the street or into a cafe and meeting and conversing with someone who has an interest in learning Chinese"

..exactly. Totally. I accept that it's not for everyone and not everyone gets it, but it's a shame when those who don't get it want to prevent others from the benefits of it. Each to their own I say.

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bodawei
August 24, 2012 at 03:45 AM

'I think a lot of what others may see as "off topic" has some relevance in some way'

Baba - I agree wholeheartedly with your post above, but this little sentence is close to my heart. My learning experience (being lucky enough to live in China) is largely 'off topic' - opportunities to learn just emerge from everyday activities. And I find this the best way to learn, so long as you have a systematic way of recalling and reinforcing the learning experience. (I don't always succeed here, but having heard something I try jotting it down and then recalling it later, and trying to practice it. Unfortunately sometimes the opportunity to document just isn't there - hopefully in these cases it just goes into the brain somewhere.)

I am no linguist of course, and I occasionally bring to mind John's plea to devise some goals and work towards them. I am actually being more systematic than I have been in the past, working through old ChinesePod lessons. It's rewarding and, as you say, entertaining. But I still learn just as much by keeping my eyes and ears open for any other learning opportunities. These community boards are, for many poddies I suspect, a substitute for immersion - almost like walking down the street or into a cafe and meeting and conversing with someone who has an interest in learning Chinese. These threads often have a real life experiential feel to them, even more so than the lesson material. You need the structure of the lesson of course, but the threads add something - as long as the community engages with it.

Interestingly, having given this a bit of thought recently, I notice that I am no more likely to recall an expression or sentence structure having learned it in a formal lesson than heard it 'on the street'. I was lost early this year when someone was asking if I had a 会员卡 - I knew I should know what they were talking about but nup .. lost it. Then I walked out of the shop and recalled a lesson some time ago about these things. Oh yeah. Now I am on the lookout - have picked up a couple in the past couple of weeks. I'll soon have as many as Dilu.

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bababardwan
August 24, 2012 at 03:08 AM

nicksymondson,

"well this topic has certainly sparked discussion which is a positive"

...I see Darkstars starting off this whole post with his suggestions as both positive and constructive and it was done with a respectful tone and he has contributed a lot here, so if this is the topic you are referring to then I agree, but if you are referring to your attempts on this subthread to muzzle and police regular contributors, while you are more than free to express your opinion and I realise many will agree with you, for mine it's difficult to see it in a positive light. You seem to be missing my point that this has been hotly debated in the past and that it was arbitrated on by CPod and that this subthreading system was the compromise that was reached. [I realise you may not have been aware of the history of this issue, and that is why I have gone to the trouble to fill you in on it which for me is not something I particularly cherish as it's all old ground for me and it's taking away from my time to do other more constructive things, but your last post renewing a call to stay on topic seems to totally dismiss CPods former arbitration on this and it doesn't seem to allow for alternate viewpoints]. But anyhow, to illustrate the benefits of this subthreading and try and quantify exactly what it is you are now complaining about I decided to look at the recent Upper Intermediate lesson " a creepy guy" which has by far the largest number of comments of any recent lesson discussion, weighing in at a whopping 218 comments. In the days before subthreading this would have meant all 218 comments were displayed and were all thrown in together. Now, with this subthreading, there are only 20 new comments on this lesson, with all the rest being posted under these comments. So this represents over a 90% reduction in the number of comments you need to look at to decide if you are interested. I also looked at how long this scrolling takes. If I used the scroll bar, I could scroll from the first to the last comment in under a second [so short a time it was too hard to time accurately]....of course no-one is going to do that as you can't read the posts then..it would only be useful if you were looking for a comment and knew where it was. Using the scroll wheel it took me 5 seconds to scroll from the top to the bottom of the page...once again not a lot of use unless you were skimming for something particular. I then tried looking for questions by using control F and then clicking on "next"...this took me 8 seconds as there were quite a lot of questions. But to the way most could use the discussion section...slower scrolling reading each new comment that wasn't in a subthread... the 20 I refer to above. This took me 45 seconds to read enough of each of these posts to get an idea of what each post was about. You make the comment:

"I have no problem when poddies like yourself help out and answer user queries about language issues"

..which is very generous of you, but I would make the point that while a lot of us are happy to do this on occasion, making a contribution generally takes a lot longer than 45 seconds, and answering questions probably longer again as it may well require more thought. So I guess my point would be that if a poddie has gone to the trouble of making one post, just one [even if the rest of that poddies posts are viewed by you as duds] , that someone finds helpful in some way, than it is very likely that poddie has spent more time and effort than the 45seconds you complain of in scrolling. Do you see my point?

Anyhow, to re-quote you. as you say:

"I have no problem when poddies like yourself help out and answer user queries about language issues. On the contrary I would encourage that"

...I would thereby suggest you be careful what you wish for in your request to muzzle and police regular contributors. While you and others may well cheer if I were to disappear [fair enough], I for one would think it a great loss to the community if we had another exodus of regular contributors if the "spirit" of the community is broken again by intolerants. I mentioned above the negative effect this has had previously. If we start policing comments [outside of those that are clearly abusive or spam] then genuine posters will start to question themselves. Is this going to be worthy? This is very discouraging and I think could well see the loss of valuable contributors, one of CPod's greatest assets. Look around at any other language site outside of Praxis....maybe I've missed something, but the boards there are all dead. Is this what we want here? If we muzzle, stifle free flowing conversation, no freedom of speech, get contributors nose's out of joint, then I feel this could well be the result as I think there needs to be a critical number of contributors or it all goes dead, there needs to be a feeling of community and connectedness. Sure folk would still come to CPod because of the excellent lessons, which I view as edutainment...that's the brilliance of it...it's such good education and so professionally done, but they make it fun and entertaining while they do that...and they have encouraged this community here, or at least they used to, I sometimes wonder how much the regular contributors are valued anymore...I know a lot who have felt this way anyway. But for many the discussions on the boards that follow from such edutainment are a part of what keep us engaged. So this is what I and I know others have found disappointing about such posts, that it is trying to take the fun out of our learning as part of the community. Finally, I know a lot of talk has been made about " off topic" and I'd like to comment on that. Firstly let me re-iterate the subthreading was the solution to it. Secondly let me re-iterate that language is fundamentally about communication and I think what's most important here is keeping some communication going, even if it naturally strays off topic. But I'd also like to add that I think some people likely have a very narrow view of what off topic is. I think a lot of what others may see as "off topic" has some relevance in some way...often it's cultural or it may involve just language practice, or it may be explaining or exploring something that was raised in the podcast, the lesson intro, or something someone has raised in discussion. Just because something may not be of interest to you or you don't see the relevance, doesn't mean it has no relevance to others. I would suggest a greater degree of tolerance and accept people warts and all. Just skip what you don't like. Is that really too much to ask?

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nicksymondson
August 23, 2012 at 12:55 PM

Hi Bababardwan well this topic has certainly sparked discussion which is a positive. You are clearly a loquacious guy and I have no problem with that for as you say CP is a community where parties who share a common interest can exchange ideas and experiences. All I suggest, along with others, is that the lesson discussion board is focused on the subject of the lesson and general conversation is put elsewhere. Further, I have no problem when poddies like yourself help out and answer user queries about language issues. On the contrary I would encourage that I just ask that it remains on the topic of the lesson.

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 07:30 PM

nicksymondson,

"It would need a bit of policing to begin with"

....actually this has been tried in the past [briefly]. There was a time when CPod used to refer to the poddies as being like a big family, encouraged the socialising, folk used to talk of what great spirit there was here, what a friendly place it was and great learning environment. Then there were complaints about the off topic stuff and a huge debate about it ensued and CPod had a very difficult job at hand trying to keep everyone happy as there were some pretty passionate views on both sides, and they tried to police it for a while...and did they're best to be diplomatic about it under difficult circumstances but unfortunately I think many got their nose out of joint and I think some left and some talked about the place not being the same and there are still echoes of that today. Anyhow, the final upshot of all this was that the solution to this was the subthreading...the site was actually changed for this very purpose, so that long threads that strayed off topic would be buried in a subthread. This was the compromise that was reached.

To this day CPod encourage more than just strictly language related questions. For example, borrowing from a recent transcript of the end of the Intermediate lesson "A Noisy Eater", Dilu concludes with:

"Well, anyway, 如果你有类似的经历或者是故事呢欢迎你到chinesepod给我们留言"

...in this particular instance not even mentioning language questions but rather welcoming poddies with similar experience or stories to come and share them. And I must say for mine this is one of the great strengths of CPod..along with brilliant lessons and teachers and resources, its been the awesome community. This is what sets it apart from a dry boring textbook. Learning a language is about more than the language, it's about learning about the culture, and about communicating. CPod's other catchcry is "learning on your terms". Being engaged in the community is something that some find helpful to keep interest and motivation up. We need to feel connected. Sure sometimes things stray off topic but this is natural in communication and language is fundamentally a social thing. It doesn't have to be for everyone and you don't have to like it, but it's great for those who benefit from it and in my mind, part of learning on your terms. Each to their own and all that. I would also like to add that it seems to me that there is an implication that those who chat on the boards are not serious students and I would like to refute that notion. I will grant that there are some super diligent folk who make amazing progress [eg darkstar] and don't chat so much. Champs! Good for them and I have every respect for that. But for mere mortals like myself, we need all the encouragement we can get [eg by socialising, practicing on the boards, etc...the stuff folk like yourself complain of]. Chinese is tough and it's a very long road and motivation can wax and wane. Most actually give up somewhere between Newbie and Intermediate. So I would suggest that if you've forked out the dough for a subscription, you are showing that you are serious enough, you may just have a different approach to how you learn and keep motivated [did I mention learning on your terms?]

"small group of subscribers"..."Rant now over but seriously, it is a problem."

...it's funny that we're on a discussion here about unanswered questions. Because barring some exceptions, it is likely that it is that very same group of regular posters that you complain of [eg see bodawei's "This is a good point, I do jump in (usually with someone new as you say) and try to help out" above] that are the ones most likely to try and help answer other poddies questions. So I'm wondering if before showing such disdain for regular posters if you should first ask yourself how much you have done to help others here [thus my JFK paraphrase] [not saying that there's anything wrong with not contributing which of course is fine, ..just saying....]

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 05:40 PM

"In fact some poddies have stiffly responded to fellow poddie's comments saying they really want a teacher to respond - usually these people are new to the site, not aware that there is no guarantee of an answer. "

..excellent point. I have always tried to help out where I can but this has also caused some reticence

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bodawei
August 22, 2012 at 01:51 PM

'esp with the language related ones I'm not too confident and am wary of leading them astray and think they're best left for CPod.'

This is a good point, I do jump in (usually with someone new as you say) and try to help out, and I sometimes forget to say that I am at best an intermediate speaker myself.

I don't know if CP have a policy on this but I don't see a clear picture - some people that get a lot of help from staff are definitely not beginners, and some advanced users get attention. Help for the newbies is sporadic, like it is for other levels; but there are more newbies than higher levels, if you get my meaning. (And this is not meant as a criticism because, like you, I believe that they already do more than is reasonably 'in the contract'.)

It is because newbies and elementary learners don't get all their questions answered that I sometimes throw my two bits in. Then I become part of the problem!

This raises another matter - what we need is some kind of protocol for questions and answers - so that people are clear on the status of the answer. I say this because, even if I am wrong, I think that it is a legitimate learning device to throw your ideas around, hoping to be corrected myself, either by a more knowledgable poddie or the staff. It would be great if this could be flagged (easily). In fact some poddies have stiffly responded to fellow poddie's comments saying they really want a teacher to respond - usually these people are new to the site, not aware that there is no guarantee of an answer.

I would definitely like all the staff assistance in one place (or searchable that way); it is a valuable resource, but it is spread all over in both time and space.

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 05:14 AM

nicksymondson,

"as I feel I am just intruding on their private space"

...it's a real shame you feel this way and you are not alone..this has been expressed before. I was very surprised the first time this was raised a few years ago and so since then have been "on the lookout" to see if anyone is being made to feel unwelcome, because I for one [and I think others are of the same mindset] would very much like to see and encourage more to get involved [there have been numerous discussions around this..how to encourage lurkers to post both by CPod and by poddies...to date very little has made any difference]. There has been the occasional spat between poddies but I can honestly say I have never seen any of the regulars post anything that would make a newcomer feel unwelcome. Sometimes posts go unanswered...but we all have that...I've had countless unanswered. I have tried on occasions to help newcomers questions, but esp with the language related ones I'm not too confident and am wary of leading them astray and think they're best left for CPod. So having seen no evidence of why a newcomer would be made to feel unwelcome I can only scratch my head and wonder if this relates to some insecurity in the person who feels unwelcome. I can only reiterate that I'd personally love to see more involved. And further to this, I have seen many newcomers come and get involved and regularly interact.

So while I'd welcome yours and others contributions whatever they may be [regardless of whether they are of interest to me or not], it's not sounding too much like you welcome comments that are of no interest to yourself. This was the reason subthreading was introduced...so that you could easily skip big chunks that were of no interest.

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Grambers
August 21, 2012 at 01:42 PM

I'd second the suggestion from darkstar94. Seems to me to be a great idea. The boards clearly serve two quite distinct functions: one, for members to discuss, debate, show-off and generally just prat around; two, for diligent students to ask specific language questions of those they hope know more than they do! Of my posts, 75% are in the former category, 25% in the latter. They are quite different kinds of posts, and I can well see how somebody only interested in studying would probably get a bit annoyed at having to wade through all the chatter to get to the important stuff. 

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podster
August 21, 2012 at 03:28 AM

好主意。   I would love to be able to sort the comments to pull all the ones which the user (or staff) had tagged as language-related together. It has been noted that sometimes one has to read through a lot of comments to get to lesson-related questions, although I am not aware that anybody has yet considered the plight of the poor staff (although I had thought of it 呵呵.)  I know you can use the search box to search through comments by selecting "community", but that may not get you where you want to go with this idea.

 

 

 

 

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darkstar94
August 21, 2012 at 04:13 AM

Yeah, I sometimes do find it frustrating going through lots of comments (sometimes unrelated to the lesson) in order to get to the parts that talk about the language or sometimes the culture. I'm not saying comments should be limited in any way, but rather make it easier for people who want to get straight to the point.

Doesn't the community search function only deal with titles of posts? But my point is that if someone has a language question, poddies and/or teachers can answer them for them without going through the recent posts and sometimes missing out of people's question completely (which I've seen in quite a few of the oldish lessons).

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RJ
August 21, 2012 at 02:30 AM

Darkstar,

I have suggested in the past that another tab be added between the discussion tab and the dialog tab. It would be called "questions for staff" or something to that effect. That way discussions of the lesson topic, related cultural issues, and the resulting tangential comments can be placed on the discussion tab, but serious language questions requiring staff attention, could be asked on the "questions" tab. Those not interested in related discussion would not have to read it, and questions would be easier for staff to find and answer. Perhaps its not so easy to add a tab to the software, or maybe there are other reasons why cpod doesn't like this idea, but it is an idea that deserves some consideration I think. Questions or discussion placed on the wrong tab could be moved by staff to the proper place in the beginning, and soon everybody would get the idea. If I were staff, I wold rather look through and answer 10 questions for a lesson, than search through a multitude of comments looking for those same 10 serious questions. Just adding to your thought, since you mentioned it.

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RJ
August 23, 2012 at 01:49 AM

oh, start with "help" at the bottom of this page. Then click FAQ. You're right though, they don't advertise enough.

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pretzellogic
August 23, 2012 at 01:12 AM

I guess I was thinking that FAQs should be placed prominently where you can find them. I had no idea that somewhere on this site there already was this. Good you provided a link. I get it that you were talking about something else, now maybe my point would be that FAQs need to be prominently displayed where they are easily located by newbies or people with questions. Not sure what you did RJ to find that link, but it would be interesting to know how many clicks it is from my posting here on the community thread.

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 05:25 PM

"It wouldn't quite satisfy my 'ideal' where staff contributions are searchable"

I've been meaning to raise this as a solution for those who just want to follow the teacher contributions...it is very easy...in the community section just click on the team tag....the only drawback is that you have to go through one staff member at a time....but only a handful regularly contribute [so you wouldn't have to go through the guided teachers who mainly do the private work for guided/executive clients]

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bababardwan
August 22, 2012 at 05:20 PM

"Another option would be to preface all questions with "@question" or use red text, or both"

this is a good idea mate. I noticed you do this on a very recent post and it certainly was very easy to identify

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bodawei
August 22, 2012 at 02:05 PM

'the tab could be simply "questions" and need not carry any more of an inherent obligation for staff than exists now.'

Okay, fair point. I still harbour a suspicion that it could grow into something that is used as a stick on the staff - but I would like to think that a clear explanation would remove that problem.

It wouldn't quite satisfy my 'ideal' where staff contributions are searchable .

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RJ
August 22, 2012 at 10:56 AM

I was thinking more about actual language related questions. Frequently asked questions such as "how do I type Chinese" are answered here:

https://cpod.zendesk.com/home

if you click on frequently asked questions.

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RJ
August 22, 2012 at 01:06 AM

Bodawei

your concerns are legitimate, but the tab could be simply "questions" and need not carry any more of an inherent obligation for staff than exists now. Other poddies could also answer, as they do now. Unless the number of questions would suddenly burgeon, I don't see it being a greater burden on anybody. In fact, quite the opposite. There is nothing wrong with chit chat, (I am guilty as well) but this would separate it from serious language study. This way everybody is happy. Another option would be to preface all questions with "@question" or use red text, or both, but this would require cooperation of all involved. We could try it, it might catch on. It just might.

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bodawei
August 21, 2012 at 12:33 PM

' "questions for staff" tab'

It's a great idea but I don't expect it to happen, because it changes the (successful) business model. If questions pile up, as they may, it makes ChinesePod look bad. The tab would be an implied contract - we ask questions and you answer. Not only that; the tab would provide a measure of staff performance - hardly fair, but that is how it could be interpreted.

I've said elsewhere that I think the staff are on the board more than they used to be (when poddies were more vocal) - they have filled the void to some extent.

I also feel that the hit and miss process we have at present creates something of a problem for the business - some students may feel peeved that they don't get their questions answered.

But no harm in making suggestions ...

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darkstar94
August 21, 2012 at 04:08 AM

Yeah that sounds like a good idea cause I am generally just interested in questions about the lesson. A problem that might come up with that is the questions that are somewhere in between, that's why I thought the option not to choose whether it's a comment or a question could be good. If not a tab, even if comments and questions could be marked differently like in different colours would be good, so scrolling through would be a lot quicker.

In terms of the questions being answered, I think it is important considering the fact they always talk about asking questions at the end of almost every podcast. And I guess if they don't get answered then you get discouraged to ask any.

But in conclusion, any way to sort the questions from the comments would be good.

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pretzellogic
August 21, 2012 at 02:35 AM

yeah, adding one or two extra tabs is an interesting idea, especially since the same questions keep getting asked over and over again, like "how do I write Chinese Characters on my Windows Laptop?" or discussed regularly like "this problem with the website needs to be corrected".