Advanced - 土葬和火化 Collaboration

哎呀，好像我是个 bad sharer 哦。I've gone and covered the whole lesson, but would very much like any suggestions and other input. 谢谢大家！

D1 - 17：29 壁葬 （Connie），在四川那边。

17:19 - 像刚才我们提到两个最主要 ~ decided now there is no 了 before the 两个.

D2 - 啊，因为其实葬礼文化 16:08 在中国文化当中是占有相当大一部分 (Connie) 的啊。 I do still hear David say 中国的文化.

C1 - 15：54 maybe 在九几年（not 90年）的时候……?

12:31 ~ 13:01

C: 啊，入土为安。这也是传统的土葬带给大家【的】一种思想。

D: 嗯，因为你不管是土葬也【好好是】把遗体火化之后，都会把棺材啊或者说那个骨灰盒啊，放入土地当中。

C: 嗯，那这个“入土”呢，也就是把死者埋入土中。那这个“安”呢就是安息，安宁。

D: 啊，就是你进入这个土当中呢，就感觉安息安宁了。

C: 嗯，是把死者埋入泥土中，让死者的灵魂得到安宁，这样他就可以休息了。

12:01 ~ 12:31

D: 嗯。

C: 它是在祭祀的时候拜访这些，给先人的食物。

D: 好像以前古时候有那种，什么祭天，祭地之类的。然后放什么牛啊，羊啊，猪哈什么的。

C: 嗯，这些食物能都叫做“供品”。

D: 啊，供品。好的。所以说啊，就是在清明节啊，我们好像，都是以祭拜为主啊，祭祀为主。嗯。顺便哪，就是把这个墓地啊打扫一下，所以叫扫墓扫墓。啊，我们刚才说【了】那么多啊，其实我觉得提示【到】中国人的一个传统思想，就是“入土为安”。

11:28 ~ 12:00

C: 那同时呢，我们会供上一些食物——比如说水果啊，点心啊，啊还有酒啊，或者烟，等等。

D: 啊。如果说死者生前他比较喜欢抽烟的，然后就放上一根烟。

C: 嗯，供上一根烟……

D: 应该喜欢喝酒的【那】就给【他】倒一下杯酒。

C: 唉，没错。那还要点上香烛。

D: 欸，那么 Connie 你这里用到一个“供”这个【字】啊。它为什么是 gòng 呢？

C: 啊这个“供”其实它是一个多音字。＜啊。＞ 我们说“提供”的时候它就是第一声，tígōng。那在这里呢，我们读第四声，gòng ……

11:07 - 好像也有很多人就是希望 ~ 也有, not 因为.

11:02 ~ 11:28

C: 祭祀呢是表达，对这个去世的亲人的一种尊敬。

D: 欸，同时啊，好像因为很多人就是希望，就是去世的人啊，在另外一个世界能够过得好。

C: 嗯，同时也保佑我们。

D: 唉。那么在祭扫的时候啊，我们一般会【用呢】什么？像香烛啊，供品啊，而且会祭拜，对吧。

C: 嗯，是的。那这个祭拜呢就是你——跪下来，你表示对这个先人的尊敬。

D: 嗯。

11:00 - 那肯定有祭祀的成分~ 肯定, not 可以.

Other than this, I think this block is OK--?

10:32 ~ 11:02

D: 那么这个墓穴和墓碑呢，统称起来就叫“墓”，是不是 Connie。

C: 所有这一套的程序都完成了之后就形成了这个墓。

D: 啊。

C: 那这个墓和它周围的一些地方呢，我们就叫做“墓地”。

D: 啊，墓地。

C: 嗯，我们在清明节的时候去扫墓扫墓呢就是去打扫这一块墓地。

D: 啊。那其实扫墓好像不光是打扫这个墓地吧。

C: 嗯，不仅是打扫，我们还要祭扫先人。

D: 啊，祭扫。那可以有祭祀的成分在里面了。

10:00 ~ 10:32

D: 就是把那个骨灰盒放在家里【还】很高的那个地方，可以看得见。

C: 比较少吧～

D: 啊有，有。绝对有。

C: 嗯……那肯定是很少很少的。

D: 欸。【因为】（笑）——怎么说呢，就是可能自己就是看着没关系了，可能是你自己家人嘛。但是如果说有客人来的话，其实，作为中国人传统上来说呢，有点不太舒服，不太吉利。

C: 嗯，心里感觉不太舒服。

D: 唉。嗯，那么我们刚才提到了，就是遗体啊，【再】经过土葬和火化之后呢，最终都会进入到墓穴，啊，然后立墓碑。

09:32 ~ 09:59

D: 啊，我知道。其实一种——是把那个整个人放进棺材里面【啊】，然后埋到土里面。

C: 嗯。

D: 还【有】一种呢，就是把它【烧成】灰，然后呢就是把这个骨灰放到【一个】小盒子里，然后再埋到土里。

C: 那同样的也有一个小墓穴，还有墓碑。

D: 啊，这个是一样的。那么把骨灰盒放入那个墓穴里，这个过程呢也可以【把它的成为是】出殡，对吧。

C: 嗯。那其实中国人很少把这个骨灰盒放在家里。

D: 欸，不过我知道有人是这样做的。

09:01 ~ 09:32

C: 啊，骨灰。

D: 欸，那么还有一个小盒子对吧，我记得。 ＜嗯。＞　就是专门放骨灰的，那个【也】叫骨灰盒。

C: 欸，没错。那这个骨灰盒还蛮贵的。

D: 欸，是啊。也是根据那个，好像制作的那个材料的不同啊，要分不同的档次。一般来说啊，会在那个骨灰盒上面啊，贴一张那个死者的照片。

C: 嗯。

D: 欸，我们【也】叫什么——？遗像。欸，那么 Connie 一般我们是怎么处理这个骨灰盒的呢？

C: 其实我们处理骨灰盒的方式跟这个处理棺材的方式挺类似的。

08:28 ~ 09:01

C: 有的时候他们还会请和尚去做法事。

D: 啊对对对，是啊，我也看到了。那么刚才我们讲那个土葬，啊。但是好像土葬在大城市里面越来越少【了】。

C: 嗯，因为土地资源比较稀缺啊。＜（笑）＞ 没有那么多的地来【进行】土葬。

D: 欸，是啊。所以说，在大城市啊，一般都是什么？火化。

C: 嗯，火化。那肯定需要用到火的。

D: 嗯，其实就是用火来【烧】化，那个，啊，死者的遗体。

C: 嗯。那这个死者的遗体被火化了之后呢，就是一团灰了。

D: 啊，就我们叫什么？骨灰。

D4 - 然后 08：22 还有的还举着旗子 （Connie） 嘛。

C1 - 07：31 所以先呢，是刻一个墓碑， (Connie)

D1 - 07：25 我又想起来 not 我也想起来 I'm thinking now

D(2) 還有

D3 - 06：37 不是说在平着， （Connie）

Yes I think you got both these bits correctly ryanchild.

D(3): 往下面挖的啊。不是说在...平著?

D2 - 其实那个棺材好像 05：58 现在也作为一种礼品在赠送 （Connie）

D4 - 不可怕呀。因为 06：05 它讨了一个口彩（Connie） 嘛

Connie also explained that “讨口彩： 听起来有好的意思。”

No, you're right. Her name is 清香。I input them incorrectly. and you were right to be suspicious of her name. Her dad is Chinese, 就是因为她性马

but her dad speaks Japanese very well, so she speaks Japanese with him, and her Chinese still has a heavy Japanese accent, but her English is worse, so we often use Chinese to communicate with her.

I used to study Japanese and I have the opposite problem... when I read Japanese in my head I read all the kana in Japanese but read the kanji in Mandarin! I've long forgotten the onyomi for kanji.

I bet John does this too..

Ah, wonder why ...

Sayaka is a pretty, feminine name. Japanese has many many surnames but I don't think 马 is one of them, so I assume that's her adopted Chinese surname. Sayaka can be written 清香. I guess she switched the chars around then? Because Ma3 Xiang1Qing1 sounds nicer than Ma3Qing1Xiang1? Yeah it takes getting used to, having the names we grew up with sound completely different, our initials change.

I'm afraid I still skim over characters that I know from Japanese, when I'm reading Chinese texts, instead of bothering to find out how to pronounce them in Chinese. When I'm typing Chinese I necessarily know how to read the characters (I need pinyin to input), and never read them in my head in Japanese. Since I've begun studying Chinese I find myself quite frequently secretly reading kanji in Mandarin, especially when the characters are identical, especially when there's no hiragana or katakana mixed in with them. Bad habits ...

weird, I thought you were a guy too! I don't know why, though.

So when you write Chinese characters, do you read them in your head in Japanese?

I have a Japanese classmate 马香清 and when she went to Beijing to study Chinese, 老师 called her name, and she didn't recognize it. lol I think in Japanese it's something like Sayaka

No need for apologies, haha, it's happened (several times) before. Zhenlijiang isn't a real Chinese name either, just a Japanese name read in Mandarin.

oooooooops i was thinking that probably wasn't a valid assumption as i hit the reply button... i'm not too good at inferring gender from chinese names yet. :) sorry!

Yeah it is good to push. I'm not Advanced either, I'm Inter/Upper Inter myself.

Oh and it's OK, but I'm also not a guy, haha.

sure thing man, i'll try to jump in when i see these advanced transcript threads... i'm more at the intermediate / upper intermediate level but it would probably do me good to push ahead a little.

Hi ryanchild, thanks for helping me out with this (I'm thrilled actually, had pretty much given up on getting any more attention here)!

Actually Connie has already answered some of the questions I've had here including this "taole yige kocai" bit, in the lesson discussion in reply to ouxiansheng. I was going to get around to cleaning those bits up and then going back to the lesson to ask Connie about the rest. Having trouble now typing Chinese, trying to sort that out first ... :-(

D(4) must be 因为它讨了一个, (it provokes a [saying]) dunno about 口才 though, seems the tones are wrong and i thought 口才 meant eloquent

C【3】: wonder now, might this be 其实看到就是用木头做的 --? yeah or 看着 ... here Connie is giving a rough description of the 棺材's appearance, isn't she.

D【5】: what would 有很大的讲究外 mean? I agree it sounds more like "wai" than "ei".

C【5】: Thanks, yep missed the 在 there.

Thanks again for the high quality input and corrections here Baba, your help is greatly appreciated.

Hey Baba--thanks for your help! Will look through all your suggestions carefully later.

I'll be laying out the rest of the pieces in a little while.

D【1】。。什么。。。同意

D【2】。。就。。。同意

C【3】： ？看着【这】是

D【5】：讲究『外』

C【5】： 嗯，因为『在』制作

D【6】： 了。。同意

D【1】: 诶，【嗯到别说】啊 Right, I don't think it's 道别. Guess I should ask our teachers about this one.

C【1】: ah yes of course 子孙--not 祖孙--后代

D【3】: ——人就这样放进去吧 Just thought I'd say this really sounds to me like 放ding去, but I can't think of any ding that would fit.

C【1】：。。它会保佑你的『子孙』后代

D【1】：诶，嗯到别说啊。。yeah, the syllable before dao is unclear. I haven't seen this expression before, but I guess it means "to go and talk about some other [examples]". I don't think it's 道别...to say goodbye, which might otherwise have fit in with the overall theme of the lesson, but not I think with this sentence.

Yeah, I think 墓穴 is right

D【2】: ah I think you got it--啊，当你说. ("When you say ~"?)

D【2】: I think you're right, I thought 完全 at first too. Should have stuck with it.

D【3】: this is 埋进去之前 isn't it, not 埋葬之前, so your ears were closer.

D【3】: ah yes. 仪式 I was able to pick up later on, somehow missed it this time.

D【3】: 会去找『一』些--here, I don't hear any 一, I'm still hearing 找些.

So now I think D【3】 would be: 噢。欸，那么在它埋进去之前肯定会有一些，啊，仪式啊，或者说，会去找些风水先生，对不对呀。

D【3】： 埋葬。。。sounds more like 埋准 to me, but I would have expected it to be 埋葬

D【3】：？。。。啊仪式啊

D【3】： 会去找『一』些

D【2】：『啊，对你说/当你说』。。I think 啊 and 说 are hopefully right, but I'm not sure about the two syllables in the middle

D【2】：『完全地』

对

Ah I see this 概括 was taught in the recent Media lesson 《相声》.

D【1】: yeah encompassing, covering more aspects. I felt less confident about the 更加 than the 概括面.

C【4】: again, thought it might be a 的, but I guess it's 呢.

D【1】：。。that's what I'm hearing also. I guess it means that "in summary, it's even bigger"...in other words it involves more than just the funeral ceremony...so it's a broader more encompassing term than the previous 丧礼

C【4】。。呢。。同意

D【1】: Yeah I feel good about the 逝世. Still don't know, about the 觉到, mostly because I can't seem to find it anywhere else.

C【2】: The old 这是 VS 就是--I now hear 就是丧事的礼仪, not 这是~.

D【1】。。同意

D【2】: This is just one of many times I'm unsure, if I'm hearing a 的 or 了(or 呢, at times).

C【2】: Now I think Connie says 知道为什么吗？ --without the 你.

D【5】: Maybe 我们这样讲的是--? It still sounds to me like 讲 rather than 教. Also I think the hosts normally say they're "talking about" something in a lesson--谈, 讲. And 讲 does also have the "lecture" aspect 谈 doesn't. Teachers 讲课, teach class. Thanks for listening and giving your input Baba, I don't think you're "probably wrong".

D【5】：我们主要讲的是。。我们『这儿教』的是...just what I'm hearing but I'm probably wrong

的。。。同意。。。I'm curious what else you were thinking it might be.

Yeah Baba I think it's 1st tone, 相对. Here I'm thinking Connie is further qualifying, wanting to lighten up the 沉重. She has the 比较 too but I'm under the impression that's a word Connie uses quite liberally all the time and didn't feel was enough there. And I think the 对来说 needs the 对 (or 对于) what.

Got a bit insecure, with so many 去's there.

C[2]: 啊，其实相对来说.....啊，其实『像』对来说...Zhen you're most likely right on this and I think that xiang does sound more 1st tone than 4th tone, but I just wondered, following on from David's haoxiang, whether xiang4 made more sense than xiangdui

里去。。。。同意