Can other people post to this group?
I noticed after all this time, I have been the only one to start posts in this group. Does that mean that other people can't start posts?
I am starting my own traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) practice, so I'm going to be busy with that for a little while. I am hoping some people can ask questions or post their own material regarding TCM terms.
Here's something to get started: What are the characters and tones for Xiao Ke and what does it mean?
dedsall78August 30, 2009, 02:39 AM
Well, you have to realize several things:
1) There are not many people who have joined this group.
2) Most probably only have a passing interest in Chinese Medicine and know little about it.
3) I wouldn't be surprised if most have not even checked the forum in months.
All of us here can start posts at any time.
Good luck with starting your own practice. You will have your hands full with all the marketing, planning, etc. that will need to be done to get that going. Did you do a lot of demographic research in order to find a prime location? Are you opening up a practice by yourself or with others?
Hard to say what Xiao Ke you are referring to since you didn't put any reference to what it was concerning. I'm guessing that it's probably xiao1 ke1, which sounds like it would be Respiratory / Asthma Department.
Unfortunately, I can't write the characters since I don't have the software installed yet. I just reformated my computer and am slowing reinstalling everything.
pretzellogicOctober 27, 2009, 05:29 AM
I am curious. Do you study when to use certain medicines, and when not to? Does each Chinese medicine have a list of side effects, and contraindications? do Chinese medicines get studied in large systematic trials for medicine effectiveness?
I ask people these questions, and usually get answers like, China has been doing this for 000s of years, and it works. But i'd be curious about what you have to say.
bodaweiOctober 27, 2009, 09:30 AM
You will find that writing 拼音 pinyin is disturbingly useless - you need to discover and learn characters in order to communicate. Although it is often interesting to analyse words in Chinese (eg. I think xiao ke means 'wasting and thirsting disorder') this can be misleading. It is better to look at Chinese in chunks of words or expressions. Next get yourself a few good dictionaries (you will find medical terminology dictionaries.) You also have to be very patient! No pun intended. Good luck exploring TCM in Chinese. I may become a visitor to your group.
I would suggest yes, yes and yes, from limited knowledge of the Australian scene. The education system varies from State to State but in NSW you would normally undertake tertiary level studies for five years full time to be considered trained in dispensing Chinese medicine - there are also requirements about supervised clinic time. Regulation concerning practice also varies from State to State. It is a little weird that something like 'traditional' medicine has become so main-streamed that you now study it at university.
bababardwanOctober 27, 2009, 09:40 AM
That's interesting.You reckon it's yes to the 3rd question too hey?
I'd be interested too to see the answer to that question.To reiterate:
do Chinese medicines get studied in large systematic trials for medicine effectiveness?
..well asked Fred.
Further,if it is a yes,it'd be interesting to look at the specifics of how such trials were conducted[are they double blind placebo controlled ?].Western medicine has certainly moved towards evidenced based medicine but I wasn't aware that Chinese Traditional Medicine had.I'd love to be enlightened further on this.
bodaweiOctober 27, 2009, 10:22 AM
Scientific studies of the effectiveness of Chinese medicine exist (both acupuncture and herbal measures at least.) There are other aspects of TCM as practised in the West including cupping and moxabustion. I am not sure if there is also research interest in these but I'd be surprised if there was not. TCM practice in Australia at least is of course modified to accommodate local laws and culture.
As to the specifics on what is tested, where, and under which trial conditions, I'd rather leave this to someone who knows what they are talking about! Maybe Google Scholar would reveal something?
PS. It is not unusual in the city where I live to see the results of cupping on people as you pass them in the street! (Red weals. I have been told that if the weals are dark then you are sick. I know, it sounds rather antediluvian.)
pretzellogicOctober 27, 2009, 10:36 AM
bodawei, bababardwan, I was noticing that Chinese medicine gets similar treatment as herbal remedies back in the US. There are lots of treatments for colds, aches, pains etc... using things like St. Johns Wort, and other herbs with which i'm unfamiliar. Producers of these types of herbal remedies do not have to undergo US FDA trials to prove effectiveness or safety. It's interesting that this is being studied somewhat in Australia, because it's not studied at all in the US, or at least not from what i've seen.
kelinshengOctober 27, 2009, 04:07 AM
Yep, my hands have been quite full. I've joined a clinic to get started and yes I did demographic and market research. It's amazing how much information you have to know to set up shop. And yes those things you pointed out are quite true. I haven't even been on this site in months.
Anyway the Xiao Ke I was refering to was something similar to diabetes. I think the translation is "wasting and thirsting disorder".
pretzellogicOctober 27, 2009, 11:29 AM
patent medicines are potentially safer because the ingredients should be at least consistent.
I agree with you here. I think that's why I posted here in the first place; I wanted to hear from a TCM practitioner directly about why TCM is quantifiably different from herbal remedies. I'm by far not an expert in this area, or even well informed.
pretzellogicOctober 28, 2009, 03:55 PM
gotcha. I guess my questions would have been directed especially at the patent medicines. But in a way, even more so against dried herbs and so on. I had a surgeon once say to me and my wife something along the lines of, "if its ineffective, then take as many as you want, whenever you want. If it's effective, then you really want to know how much, when, when not to, side effects, what not to take with something else, etc.." I get the impression (which is why i'm asking here) that some people take dried herbs to mean Natural, and Natural=safe AND effective.
Oh, and "hundreds of years of experience" means "doesn't need clinical trials"
bodaweiOctober 30, 2009, 11:38 AM
A negative perception of TCM is dominant in the Western medical profession. Surgeons are likely to head the list - they have in a sense 'won the battle' against TCM. But in other parts of medicine there is less dogmatism. Some areas of Western medicine are co-operating with TCM. A growing number of practitioners have training in both. GPs now fairly commonly refer to TCM practitioners. This co-operation can be observed in China - many doctors are trained in both and even when this is not the case the systems co-exist (although there is still a war here against quacks.) Sometimes it may be a little difficult to know whether you have been treated by the Western or TCM method! (eg. at a community health centre.)
I'm not sure that I agree with the comment about clinical trials - TCM did involve trials (if not applying the conventions of Western science), but now it is even more under scrutiny, having to assert a space in modern China. TCM is so holistic it comes into even discussion about what food you should eat.
Another point - it seems to me that TCM has left its marks on Western medicine in China. For example, the distinction between 'Chinese' and Western pharmaceuticals seems blurred (despite the division down the middle in some pharmacies.)
pretzellogicOctober 30, 2009, 01:50 PM
I guess I should say that I am skeptical also, but I am willing to be convinced. I know plenty of fans of TCM, and it has been around for awhile.
I don't disagree with the holistic ideas around TCM. There's plenty around western medicine that I see we "know" that it turns out there's no data for (like stretching before/after exercise to prevent injury (if you believe the NY Times article)). It's also fair to say that TCM practitioners don't say that they can cure everything under the sun.
Ultimately, I don't know a lot about TCM, what it is, or why it's different from what little I see in western medicine (with its own issues). But I have other priorities, and I was hoping that asking a couple of questions on this site about TCM would get me some simple quick answers, and then i can go back to studying mandarin. I knew I could be pushing kelinsheng's buttons by my questions, but I was curious, and thought she could help. I probably shouldn't have asked.
bodaweiOctober 27, 2009, 11:11 AM
There is a difference between academic research and undergoing FDA trials. In Australia there has been a critical focus on patent 'herbal remedies' in recent years, but my impression is that TCM is not lumped in with this. Or at least not completely lumped in with it. Because much of TCM herbal medicine practice is not relying on patent medicines; rather, raw herbs are dispensed. Some is, but I would think not most. Paradoxically, patent medicines are potentially safer because the ingredients should be at least consistent.
There - I have exhausted my meagre knowledge of the subject.