向温家宝扔鞋者的身份透露了

Hi heroius

Don't worry, bud. I wasn't criticizing you. Just remarking on a cultural difference that I have observed many times.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your opinions with everyone.

hi pearltowerpete~

sorry for my abruptness...

you know we chinese people often pay too much attention on politics ,for kinds of reasons, that sometimes daily life and hankering for power to make life better get mixed up.

Hi heroius,

谢谢你在这儿留言，跟大家分享自己的一些有趣的想法。和耐人寻味。

谈到中国人民的感情，其实，这可能就是中国和西方的一种文化差异。一般说来，西方人能够很客观，很冷静地谈自己领导和政府的不足之处。 听到其他国籍的人批评甚至是痛骂他们，也不会把这些话当作侮辱，也不会往心里去。政客和党派一直把自己说成人民的代表，但实际上不是。于是，批评一个国家的政府或政策并不等于批评或鄙视其老百姓。我们cpoddies都十分尊重普通的中国人民。说领导的坏话不等于不尊重人民。

changye etc.

我只是想提醒你们注意，温家宝-胡锦涛政府在中国还是很得民心的，所以当你们讽刺当届政府的时候，请考虑一下中国人民的感情，我想这也是一种尊重吧！

另外，中国政治改革的落后状况的确也是严重的问题，但中国人并不愚蠢！你可以调查一下我们对待李鹏-江泽民政府的态度。

前几天看到你们以上的评论，发现西方和东方的思维方式不同，尽管学了中文之后，那种思考问题的态度和观念和我们中国人有巨大的差异。在西方社会里，一直强调的是个人自由，就像前面所说，可以对政府进行任意批评（critics），但是在中国国内却不是如此，我们注重的是一种人与人之间的共赢，不希望私下里对他人评头论足，同时还希望能正面地提出问题，并且在提出问题时不要太直白，要委婉一点。

前面看到你们讨论得这么激烈，一直想加入。今天终于注册了个号，评论一下。如有不妥之处，望各位海涵。

Here is the good news. Premier Wen Jiabao, a large-minded man, has asked Cambridge University to forgive the German student. Thankfully, Chinese national leaders seem to be much more merciful and lenient to students in foreign countries than to their own students in China. I'm not a person of principle, so I love this kind of "double standard" very much.
 
温总理希望校方给肇事者继续学习的机会
http://news.xinhuanet.com/world/2009-02/08/content_10780514.htm

edgy, no problem. If I never make mistakes, I never learn; if nobody corrects my mistakes, I never learn.  Grammar is one of my major weaknesses.  I will study your changes.

tvan:我不想做个吹毛求疵的人。忠言逆耳嘛。But you may consider saying "I have no problems reading it" in Chinese as “我看懂没问题”。还有，“我会读到一些多比较有学问的词”是说“我会多读到一些比较有学问的词”吗？Like I said, I don't mean to be a nuisance or discourage you guys in any way.

edgy, 我真的不知道 “秃驴” 是指和尚的。 你的回答写的很明白，我没问题看。 说实在，上面的留言是比较难因为很讽刺,但我觉得很有意思。我不介意，因为，一，我很爱讲政治，二，我会读到一些多比较有学问的词。 而且，有网友帮助我们翻译。 谢谢。

Hi, I'm new here, and very glad to see all of you guys. Its really interesting to read your comments here, I enjoy it.

“A Sichuanese dog barking at the sunrise"-- much ado about nothing.

This translation in english really make my day:)

by the way, I'm trying to say someting about the issue about our PM in cambridge uni, political is just political, we can talk about it as a chat as we talk about culture, travelling or whatever. Don't take it seriously as it may harm for your healthy. after all, a better life itself is much more important than which kind of political system afford it. In my opinion, all political system is relatively the same essentially.

I have met a lot of very kind american people in US, and I also have good friend from Japan and Turkey.

so guys, judge a people by his personality and manners, do not judge a people by his goverment or nationality. we can be really good friend wherever you are come from and wherever you will go.

pete,你好。蜀犬吠日是个典故，我特地在网上查了一下。蜀是四川省的简称，个人觉得蜀的用法有点过时，“气质上”比较古朴、书面化。李白有诗名曰《蜀道难》，就是讲四川的山路艰险、难走。四川是盆地地形，雨多，那里的狗不常见到太阳，出太阳就要叫。此词比喻少见多怪。相近成语有“孤陋寡闻”等。

Hi edgy

谢谢你解释一下蜀犬吠日这个成语，蛮好玩儿。

“A Sichuanese dog barking at the sunrise"-- much ado about nothing.

I had no idea that 秃驴 was a derogatory term for a Buddhist monk. It's always interesting to read about lay people's respect-scorn relationship with the religious community. On the one hand, they often suspect them of hanky panky or at the very least 嫌他们吃闲饭- getting away with doing very little work. But on the other hand, they hope the holy men and women will keep up their good works.

It's a variation on the "town-and-gown" relationship between local people and university communities.

tvan:

我不完全理解你的意思。只拣我想到的说：一、你知道秃驴可以指和尚吗？通常是古装武打片里的台词，如“你这个死秃驴，赶快给我出来！”呵呵。二、有关形容动物叫的词，我只想到几个。嘶鸣是指马叫，比较书面化。可以说“马声嘶嘶”。狼嚎当然是指狼在“嗷嗷”叫啦。猫咪叫的时候当然是“喵喵”啦。“呱呱”可以形容鸭子或青蛙的叫声。“呱呱叫”还可以表示极好的意思哦。三、我认为一种文化在某一方面越丰富，可以想见的，它在这一方面的词汇便会越丰富。四、“蜀犬吠日”也是一个成语，感兴趣的话可以去查一下。最后，希望我用中文做的阐释你能看得懂。

To mine a linguistic nugget from the above, does Chinese generally use fewer words than English to describe animal sounds.  Specifically, parsing chinasophia's phrase 秃驴乱吠, I came up with 秃驴/Tūlǘ/Bald donkey 乱 吠/Fèi/bark (as in a dog).  In English we would say "bray" to describe a donkey's sounds.  Consulting my kids' old books, they use 叫 for horses and donkeys, 吼 for lions and tigers, and 吠/bark for dogs.  Does Chinese have fewer words for animal sounds, or is it the fact that my kids' books use simpler terms?  Would the above phrase be improved by making it, "秃驴乱叫", at least in the context of a non-figurative donkey?

BTW, the only combination for 吠 in my dictionary was 吠形吠声 or to slavishly imitate what others say, something that could be applied equally to 新华 and Western cable news.

edgy

谢谢你，我感觉最后的例子比较好用一些:-)，我口语和语法还差得很。没得事，好好学习，天天向上。

miantiao: 我觉得你这句“我在澳大利亚从事当小型建筑企业老板”结构有点混乱。你可以说“我在澳大利亚从事建筑业”或“我在澳大利亚当/是一个建筑行业的小老板”。更口语化一点，“我在澳大利亚是搞建筑的，当个小老板。”

冒昧了。

 chinasophia, 因为我在上面也留言,可能我也是个笨货?  哎呀,我的妻子跟你同意... 但我不是个秃驴啊!!!!

Hi chinasophia

据说今年元宵能看五十多年来最大的月亮，你已经看到了吗？
中国传统的汤圆今天你吃了没有？我很爱吃元宵！

就像很多人说言，扔鞋者很显然是个笨货，或者也许有人操控他吧。温家宝是全中国的宝，向他丢鞋会让全中国的人不爽，他仍鞋的理由？中国没有人权？反对西藏独立？以为西藏是个天堂？认为达赖是个宗教圣人？西方人总是迷信于宗教，某些人总是利用宗教人权说事情，如果有点哲学常识的就不会听达赖那个秃驴乱吠了，什么“荣誉市民”？惹了中国的人迟早会知道自己是个愚蠢的冲动者~~因为他们太不了解中国这个古老但永远不会衰退的国度~~

lovveu

not to worry. Emotion often conquers intellect. I would not be married if that were not the case.:-)

And its like I tell my wife, I only criticise the things I like, because they are worth making better.

Sorry for my sensation conquered my intellect days before. In fact I agree all your criticisms.

Hi jefftse

You are very right. I can't agree more. Criticizing something/someone really takes intelligence and knowledge, and this is exactly the reason why I usually don't make "a preemptive attack" on other guys here in Chinesepod forum, haha. I know my limitations. Thanks for your nice advice.

  中国的修养，单挑可以，但是要修养。

Changye,

If only more people could have your kind of insight that allows one to step away from the chess board and see over the barriers that divide people to get the big picture of the brotherhood of man.This reminds me of Stings anti-Cold War song Russians:

and lyrics are here

liperfect

欢迎你来这里交流。以互相尊重为促进发展友好交流，这个概念完全没错。我个人倒是觉得尊重和面子有一点不一样。比如；有时候最难听的话就是实话，虽然难听，但是实话最终却要带来利益并能让某人、组织、更深的思考以便追求好结果。

我在澳大利亚从事当小型建筑企业老板，当时要是员工不愿对我说实话却一直拍马屁，对我来说那个人就没用，一点贡献没投入。要是员工不怕把他的意见自由的提出，无论我喜不喜欢听，就代表那个人很尊重我并关心我，当然也是代表他就业情况依靠我生意情况。

当自高自大并不理员工说的话却骂他要尊重老板才是对，就是显得代表我不尊重他。这个简单的例子可以表现尊重和面子的不同点。

不管什么样的人类社会结构、公司啊、家庭啊、国际交流啊，要么不说实话阻挡往前发展，要么说实话互相促进和发展更好的未来。含蓄、老练，这两个语言策略当然也有用。我请你漫漫看大陆网友对外国所说的批评。

我是一个中国人，在中国社会，我们很讲究给人面子，书面点说就是给人很大很大的尊重，只有给对方足够的尊重，我们的才有可能继续交流，我想这应该是每一个国家的特点，只不过中国更看重罢了。

The Chinese authorities have been requesting their people to differentiate common Japanese people from Japanese militarism/imperialism (at least on a superficial level), while they are very enthusiastic about patriotic education, where its highlights are, of course, the second Sino-Japanese war (anti-Japanese war) and number of episodes about evil Japanese soldiers and heroic Chinese soldiers (sorry, kuomintang soldiers not included).

It seems current Chinese leaders naievely believe that human beings, at least their own people, are very rational/reasonable entities. I'm afraid I'm a simple guy. So if I were a Chinese, I would definitely hate all the modern Japanese people. That said, I agree that the kind of thinking such as "condemn the government rather than the people" is very right. Fortunately enough, this principle can also be applied to Chinese people when foreigners talk about the PRC, of course.

loveeu, 說實在不少的美國人也很討厭外國政府批評美國。我記得前幾年在聯合國，法國的總統反對美國的決議侵略伊拉克。我們的參議院決心把 “French Fry” 的名字變成 “Freedom Fries." 真小氣而且一點不成熟的。不但如果美國聽它老朋友的忠告...

“如果看不起中国人的话，干嘛要花那么多功夫学这个超级难的语言呢？”

就是！我喜欢多几中国人朋友和我喜欢中国文化

我这个中老年人确实很罗嗦。我还想说两句话，太不好意思了！

Hi lishuai,

我没记错的话，小布什在伊拉克遭扔鞋袭击之后，很多中国网民显得非常高兴，甚至不少人赞扬那个所谓扔鞋记者。再说，杭州一所初中学校的老师们和学生们做了一个扔鞋模拟物理实验。就像我拿这次剑桥扔鞋事件开玩笑一样，好像中国人也很会享受“别人的不幸”。

我现在才想起来，温家宝总理就是一个理科本科毕业生。我认为如果他亲自在母校做个扔鞋实验就太好了。我向毛主席保证，这种诙谐幽默的作风肯定要感动全世界，而且实验报告书一定能成为全球畅销书。说实话，我已经想好了一个很恰当的书名。你觉得怎么样？

《剑桥扔鞋袭击事件中的若干科学问题》

lishuai

难道你认为那扔鞋的人能够想吗？ 他脑子进水了，呵呵

真不知道扔鞋的那人是怎么想的.气愤！！！

Hi lovveu

中国还有这个俗话： 当局者迷，旁观者清。

lovvue

我能理解你的观点，请你别误会有些同学的意思，一般来说某人政治评论并不是代表他对中国老百姓的看法。

当我听外国人向我国批评的时候，要是值得关注就能让我考虑，要是批评没带来根据或就是屁事，那么我可以不理它，对吗？

我们母语英文的人小的时候常常听爸妈说 ‘sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me'

Hi lovveu

I absolutely agree that the Chinese people have the right to criticize the American government's foolish policies. I hope they do.

我们为什么把古巴的Guantanamo Bay 监狱关掉呢？ 最主要的原因就是因为挨了其他国家的批。我们一天到晚提倡“justice." 自己应该身体力行。

Criticism from other countries is one of the best ways of embarrassing a government into correcting its mistakes. This is true for subsidies, the environment, etc. etc. etc.

No one on this board dislikes the Chinese people. 如果看不起中国人的话，干嘛要花那么多功夫学这个超级难的语言呢？

No government is as good as its people. 我们有个俗语叫 "Acquaintances agree, friends argue." Foreigners who have lived here with their eyes open are bound to see things they deeply disagree with.

If someone is only able to repeat banalities about how friendly the Chinese people are, how delicious Chinese food is, and how beautiful the mountains are in Guilin, they are not worth listening to.

to changye

your story is very suitable here. 中国有句俗语“清官难断家务事”，中国政府的主要罪行都在国内而不是国外，所以你们这些“清官”们对于我们内部的问题还是别多管闲事的好。

to pete

I think most of your people dislike chinese crisize your government every day too, Although some of you think we have the right.

If some one say bad things of china all the time. I think he not only dislike the PRC government but also chinese people.

I agree that Chinese Government is much bad than your's, but it's our obligation to be against it not yours. You have the right to criticize the Chinese Government, but we chinese people don't like you foreigners criticise  so much.

Hi lovveu

我认识的一个女人，她丈夫非常爱喝酒，而且性格粗暴，甚至经常打骂妻子。当然那个女的老在朋友面前说老公的坏话。但是很奇怪，当别人因为同情而批评她丈夫的时候，那个女人却觉得很不高兴，还是有点偏袒自己的爱人。哈哈，人就是这么回事。你的意见让我想起这件事。那么，就到此为止吧。对于这次扔鞋事件，该说的我都说了。对了，我想告诉你一件事。批评也要有幽默感，对不对？

呵呵，没得事，我们早已习惯了！

啊，miantiao 同志，很抱歉，我怎么把我们澳洲兄弟给忘了，实在很不好意思！

难道我们澳洲人没有习惯骂祖国政府吗？还是我们澳洲又被忘了，不公平！ 呵呵

我们澳洲走狗总里现在自己认为当是，所以说，免得让他丢脸，下次讲到 资本民主国家请包括澳洲 ;-)

Hi lovveu

Please keep your tone respectful. 

A bit of levity never hurt anyone.

而且，我们欧美人和日本人也会把自己政府骂成狗屎，但经常也有中国人在批评我们。难道因为我们已经批评过政府，中国人就没有这个权利了吗？这是一种双重标准，不公平。

To Changye

中国政府的问题我们中国人骂得很厉害，但看到外国人骂中国政府很多中国人都会觉得不舒服。So Please Shut up!

Hi miantiao

我想请求温总理把那些听众打包回家。

长夜

外卖听众特大卖！买一送一！

中国媒体说，那天温家宝从容应对干扰赢得全场热烈掌声。我认为这个报道既很准确又很客观，因为大多数听众都是中国留学生。我好像看见其中有好几个穿蓝色运动服的特工保镖。是幻觉吗？

Pete,

That pic reminds me of a comment Jenny once made[in a podcast about shoes] about foot binding;that it has phased out but that parents still buy shoes that are too small;the modern version of foot binding;ouch.But yeah,may not cause as much damage.

還好，不是這種鞋子

changye,

"这不会是中国制造的吧。"

ni shi tai hao xiao,haha

我又错了。Correction: (X) 课堂上, (〇) 讲坛上

被吓坏的温总理看起来没有余力以幽默应对意外。如果他在课堂上捡起那只鞋子，然后这么说就好了，"这不会是中国制造的吧。" 不过我可以理解温总理的反应。一般独裁国家的领导人不太习惯这种意外，再说我们亚洲人还是缺乏点幽默感。话虽这么说，但我听说邓小平就是一个很善于开玩笑的人。

Correction： It's 澳洲现任总理(or 首相), but not 澳洲现任总统, in my fourth comment.

我太笨了。我才发现为什么扔鞋事件惹怒中国人。这次事件只不过是模仿伊拉克扔鞋的行为，根本没有创造性，也就是说“伪造品”。众所周知，中国人最讨厌这种无耻的事情。

我经常在网上看到中国人说，中华民族很大度，也很有宽容心。大家好好注意，从这次扔鞋事件来看，这种漂亮话就得打折扣。

幸亏中国人不吃鲸鱼肉，澳洲现任总统对中国的态度很好。太羡慕了！

很多人会怀疑，这个人是不是得到了学校领导的批准才丢鞋子了。换句话来讲，是不是故意的，为了让中国丢脸。

有一次，胡锦涛拜访美国的时候，讲话之前一个积极分子冒出来了，骂了他一场，才被抓走了。典礼开幕之前也放了台湾的国歌。当时中国人很愤怒，都说是故意的。摆了名就是我们政府太无能，连这种小事办不成。

我也同意，这种事情不要当真。

我倒是觉得是有一点搞笑。 就是一神经病的人罢了，难道值得太严肃的关注那种的人吗？我不过同意他行为并不文明。

这个扔鞋事件对美国人来讲是一种恶搞或者是玩笑，与此相反，对中国人来说还是国家大事。中国人对待事情格外认真，很值得佩服！

澳洲！我们的陆克文大哥早已学到怎么 拍马屁呀！

上次是法国，这次是英国和德国，下次该谁得罪中国老大哥？到底有没有国家还没得罪过中国？

changye

剑桥校长可以放松啦！原来不是英国人， 哈哈！

那个家伙得罪了皇帝，自食其果，被开除就是应该的。砍头也行，后悔也没用！