Review of Praxis' competition: FrenchPod101, ArabicPod101 etc

I have been using arabicpod.net for the past year and I think it's brilliant. As well as podcasts they have games, videos and interactive software. It's way better than arabicpod101 in my opinion

aiji,

I've tried 101 and other materials (available on bookstore) to study Arabic, but I've never found a great method yet. One thing is that, as you mentioned, I wonder how much the learning of standard Arabic would help when you travel to Arab countries.

I really hope Praxis will start the ArabicPod shortly!

If one is actually interested in learning spoken Arabic outside of Morocco, ArabicPod101 is probably not for you. More than most languages, Arabic has very strong regional differences in dialect. The most commonly understood of these is typically known to be Egyptian, primarily because of the domination of Egyptian media in the Middle East.

I suscribed to ArabicPod101 for a month just to get a feel for it and to keep up on my long-lost Arabic. During this month I had friends from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Qatar review a few of the lessons, they said they had a difficult time understanding any of the language in the lessons and the two Arabian peninsula Arabs were even a little offended that somebody called this Arabic. They were primarily referring to the Moroccan dialect also packaged in the system APOD101 offers.

I am very excited to see what Praxis comes up with for Arabic. I lived in th Middle East on two occasions and have taken a ton of Arabic coursework in college, along with Chinese. I am not the foremost expert, but there is no good system for learning Arabic currently available. And, this makes Arabic, in my humble opinion, the grand-daddy of all difficut languages to learn. Chinese, including CPOD, is littered with wonderful systems for learning the language. Arabic is a completely different monster altogether.

The biggest problem is that most colleges and programs emphasize something called Modern Standard Arabic, which could be compared with today's English vs. Middle English, literally. It is only used in the highest circles of Arabic society, and has little use in the streets of Algeria, Cairo, Demascus, etc.

If Praxis can create a system where a strong verbal base can be established in a common dialect, this has the chance of being a truly revolutionary product, because virtually every other sysem available emphasizes something that simply is not used very often. But, it could also be very generic with what else is out there. I am very anxious, but I am still keeping my hopes low, just because of how huge a task it truly is to incorporate all aspects of that very very difficult language.

Just my two cents. Hope I didn't write too much.

I've been listening to arabicpod101 and it is so boring because the entire show is scripted, and the hosts have never met to record the lesson, you can tell that each have read his part separately and then and then the episode was mixed. It is a good learning resource, but of much lower quality than their original  japanesepod101. Praxis' Frensh and Spanish pods,  on the other hand, do not stay behind to Chinseepod in anything.

I've just listened to my very first few FrenchPod.com lessons from Praxis. It's brilliant! The team sound: fluent (in both English and French), effervescent, fun, sexy (well, Amaury), authoritative, friendly, and charismatic. The French spoken by Amaury and Cristalle is especially nice -- sophisticated, but neutral and natural and clear. Amaury in particular has exceptional "delivery", you get the feeling he could hack it as a news reader or a DJ, whatever he chose.

One little observation: I think the team could, subtly and with very little extra effort, do a bit more to help users learn genders. Eg. in the lesson, "J'ai Froid", the gender of "fenetre" is emphasized, but it wouldn't have cost Amaury and Erica more than a second or to let the listeners hear, "...yes, and "the cold" -- the noun -- is le froid. Le froid" even if it wasn't a main lesson point or vocab point.

I'm utterly, happily impressed! Thank you FPOD!

P/s: (sorry! I'll stop after this!) Even something as basic as removing dead human and livestock bodies from village wells, pumping out as much seawater as possible from each well, and then finally disinfecting it so that -- hopefully -- people will be able to drink from it with reasonable safety, is something which is far beyond the capabilities of any government acting alone, no matter now powerful its military may be (or may be thought to be)...

This is a "missed chance" that I think I shall regret for the rest of my life. There are soldiers in our armed forces (some are regulars, some are reservists) who feel that their lives were changed forever by the experience of serving in Aceh. In fact I believe that some of them still keep in touch with the Acehnese families that they came to know. I am sure that these soldiers are better fathers or mothers (or husbands or wives) for it, and this also had a very positive effective effect on the relations between our countries, and daring to be so open also improved Indonesia's image in the eyes of the international community.

Dear bryan, I'm still reeling with relief and happiness that MM made it back to Singapore in one piece. In fact, she's having lunch at my house today.

Actually, she's very overwhelmed after getting the news "straight-up"; it is far worse than she had been led to imagine.

Also pushed to her limits a bit, I think, by what she saw of the totally brazen way in which the military is stealing international relief supplies and forcing people to buy it from them. But the Myanmar sense of humour -- it's sort of "Irish" -- is still there; when she told me how her sister kept falling asleep during the night of the cyclone, tuning everything out even though MM was screaming with fear, I couldn't help laughing.

It's a very bad situation they have there. Most "friendly neighbours" (like Singapore, regrettably) are in a bind because our assessment is that nothing short of a full-on, friendly military "invasion" of the Delta region with: landing vessels, full Chinook and C-190 support, several dozen military field hospitals, military engineers who can bring in military bulldozers and earth movers, and even military cartographers (to establish an air- or land bridge for supplies to come in), and basically, armed foreign troops to make sure that the relief supplies aren't simply stolen etc etc.

That worked so well in Aceh, after the Tsunami. I never thought that soldiers wearing Singaporean military dress would ever be allowed to move freely on Indonesian soil, but it happened. But it is not going to happen this time because the host country is so paranoid.

auntie,

It's great to hear that your friend MM is okay. I was just wondering if you had heard anything. Thanks for the info on Charles Duff. I wasn't familiar with him. I see the French Book (1955?) book is available used on Amazon (US) for $1 and $3.99 shipping (US)! I have heard very good things about the Catalan Assimil that you mentioned, by the way. Also, judging by some of your previous posts, it sounds like your French is quite good, so maybe it could be your gateway to the non-translated Assimil offerings!

Hi melitu,

Here is a "slightly off topic" reply.

Are you learning Japanese? Actually, almost all the chengyu (成语) in Japanese are originated in classical Chinese literature, therefore most of them are just the same as their counterparts in Chinese, except for their readings.

And of course, unfortunately for learners, there are sometimes slight differences between them. For example, Chinese chengyu “塞翁失马” (塞翁 lost his horse) became “塞翁が馬” (塞翁’s horse) in Japan, and both of them connote the same meaning.

Let me show you another example. “龙头蛇尾” is one of the most popularly used chengyu in Japan, but in China “虎头蛇尾” is much more commonly used than its “龙头” version. As far as I know, “龙头蛇尾” has a longer history than “虎头蛇尾” in China.

In Japanese, chengyu is called as “四字熟語”, and it is a Japanese equivalent of so-called “四个字” in Chinese. Japanese people don’t use as much chengyu as Chinese people both in conversation and in writings. Using many chengyu makes you sound pedantic!

Thanks. Based on what you are saying, I think it may actually be a very brilliant approach. A lot going on behind what the target learner *thinks* is happening. I have the feeling that the MT could be extremely powerful when it comes to that initial "breakthrough" for any particular language. It sort of forces the student to simply concentrate on the material, without pre-conceptions or baggage. On my second listen, it reminded me of the sample Pimsleur MP3 I once listened to on Twi (or was that Ewe?); I didn't come away with any useful vocab, but my friend -- a naturalised Singaporean born in Togo, and a native speaker of Twi -- was shocked when I tried out my new phrases on him... the tones were correct. I'm just (stubbornly) wondering how this kind of approach can best fit into a personal project for language-learning. Probably as a great first step into a new language zone?

@auntie68

Short answer ... I don't think they pretend that the course (any MT course) is meant to be comprehensive. Indeed, if memory serves, he didn't even reference something as common as the 3rd person plural form (ie: they) of any verbs in the entire French Foundation course! If they left that out, it stands to reason they glossed over other material, so don't go looking for subjunctive, participles, etc. ;)

All Foundation courses are roughly 8 hours. That's not a heckuvalotta time, so they tend to zero in on those things that will be of most immediate use. And they have quite knack for that. And though they offer subsequent lesson sets, I think it's safe to assume that they expect most people will be fleshing out the basic framework with material from other sources.

Having said that, MT probably has insights into the way in which human beings acquire language. To be fair, my Stunt Toddler nephew (2 and a bit) has a Filipino nanny, so he listens to heavily-accented English for close on 10 hours a day, yet he only speaks English with an accent when he is speaking to her. Guess the human ability to perform code-switching and resolve "interference" is very, very powerful...

Dear fudawei, I get your point. I never said, or even implied, that only native speakers have anything worth teaching.

My question is: Is MT designed as a "stand-alone" course? How does one learn to speak French without ever listening to "good" French?

To me, the MT method overwhelming value may be in overcoming emotional blocks to language acquisition. The question I asked myself, when I was reeling from the shock of "comme ci, comme ca" (which I've NEVER heard a real French person say, except in an ironic tone) and the gutteral "r"-s, was: "Would the students have picked up his heavy accent if they had been anything but anglo-saxon/American newbies?"

I have English and American friends who are good in French and/or English and/or Italian, yet they don't sound at all natural in these languages -- and natives have problems getting what they say -- because they speak these languages with an English or American accent.

So I can't help wondering how effective the MT approach (based on that little clip) could be for a learner who had a good "ear" for accents and previous experience in language-learning. I'm sure this method works for many people, but I can't help feeling that the "students" (who are they? are they real students, or paid actors?) didn't pick up that heavy accent only because they didn't have much of an "ear" for foreign languages. Please don't be annoyed, I was -- and still am -- reeling from the shock of the instructor's thick accent.

@ auntie68

iTunes has a short demo from the new Russian, Arabic & Mandarin -- enough to give you a taste.

@ Volapuk (aka Harold Goodman)

If I sound harsh, it's only because I am a great admirer of Michel Thomas and want to see his approach succeed. I know they have plans to introduce more languages; the chances of that seem greater if the current ones live up to the standards set by Michel.

Before you take too much undue offense, I will say up front for the sake of fairness that I only heard the "Mandarin Intro Course" via iTunes; the first (what?) 8 or so lessons from the complete course. I found enough to admire that I intend to purchase the full course. I will write a review at that time.

For now, suffice to say that I am not a big fan of mnemonics. They tend to be gimmicky pop-linguistics. That they are popular among beginners is not surprising -- they provide a comfy security blanket. But anything that puts itself between the coding/encoding process is generally an unnecessary extra step that does more harm in the long run.

(Reminds me of the old joke ... A cop asks a guy his name. The guy wave his hands and hums. After 20 seconds he replies: 'Herman'. The cop asks: 'What's with all the hand-waving'? The guy responds: 'I have a bad memory, so in order to remember my name I gotta sing: 'Happy Birthday to me! Happy Birthday to me! Happy Birthday dear HERMAN! ... ")

nb: I'm certainly not against all mnemonics; they are a potent tool when used wisely. Michel struck a nice balance.

auntie ... if you're mocking Michel Thomas's French Course you should probably know that:

1.) The entire MT line is highly respected and considered very affective and innovative.

2.) The French course stands out as *especially* popular.

You are making the embarrassing mistake of many newbies who assume that only native speakers have anything worth teaching. It is quite often the exact opposite. By your telling, his two students should have picked up his (admittedly heavy) accent -- yet they didn't.

No, actually it sounds like Hebrew... a lot of the "kh"/"ch" sounds. Unbelievable. Volapuk, do you have a download of the Mandarin for us to try?

@fudawei - I've just downloaded the French sample MP3 from the official Michel Thomas website, and I am absolutely flabbergasted. The French -- and also the English -- spoken by the instructor sounds like Dutch! In fact, it sounds like a Dutch person version of a fake "Inspector Clouseau" French accent. His accent is so bizarre that can't decide whether to laugh or cry. But that's only the French...

Are you Chinese?

Welcome, volapuk49. No need to be prickly. I am actually (sincerely) curious to know more about you. It's so rare to be able to get to know a little about the human beings who author language courses. So will you please let me/us know a little bit about your own Mandarin background, and what you think were the main factors that led to MT appointing you? if you can post in Mandarin as well, that would make it really interesting, for me at least!

@Everybody who reads this thread: Please be nice. I wrote the above words without any sense of irony or malice. Let's keep it this way.

Fudawei writes regarding the Michel Thomas courses:

"Frankly, the Russian is weak, the Mandarin is just plain bizarre (lots of silly mnemonics and gesturing), but the Arabic is rather interesting and (as far as I can tell) done rather well."

How astute.

As the author of the Mandarin course, which has received rave reviews in The Guardian, Amazon.co.uk, etc. by people who actually used and profited from the entire course, I am always fascinated to read detailed, incisive commentary to help us improve this totally unique and highly successful way of teaching people to actually communicate on their own, in record time, in Mandarin.

For cpod's future series lessons (like the Elementary diaries or Intermediate beauty pageant, Jizhou, and now Saved by the Gong), it would be a good place to weave a more continuous, structured approach for some grammar items. I understand not wanting to force continuity on all the lessons at cpod, but in this case, people are likely to listen to the whole series anyways.

auntie68,

Thank goodness she is alright! I can imagine the big "phew" wash over you when you first heard her voice.

fudawei,

Ah, I left off ItalianPod101 because it was linked from JPod101 and KClass101. Thanks for the link! Actually what I said is now no longer true; I just noticed on KClass101 that they now link to all their language offerings =)

changye,

(Slightly off-topic) I just heard on JPod101's news that they will start having lessons on the Japanese equivalent of chengyu. Do you know how much intersection there is between Japanese and Chinese chengyu? Are they the same?

Okay, everybody, this is a (stupidly) off-topic post, but I am deliriously happy: Only a few minutes ago my friend MM called me on my Singapore cellphone from Singapore's Changi Airport, she is BAHK! And alive, and well (though very tired), and I have no words to describe my deep joy. My apologies to everybody who felt worried because of my panicky post earlier in this thread. MM will tell me what they need in Myanmar, and frankly, I'm just so delirously happy that she is okay.

melitu ... You left out ItalianPod101. They''re all under the umbrella of the parent company Innovative Language Learning -- and there is a complete list there.

Hi melitu. The sheer ability of the KCLASS101 hosts -- and also the chemistry between them -- is awesome, is it not?

But I'm not sure that's a question of "luck". One very valuable resource which they have is a somewhat improbably site called, "survivalphrases.com". I believe that's how they recruit -- and test-drive -- some of their better hosts.

I did sign up for a two-language pass there once, but cancelled one of the languages (viz, Vietnamese; there was a pressing personal reason to try learning that language) because Keith Kim, the KC101 host, made the Vietnamese host look so bad.

KC101's Keith was obviously head and shoulders above the others (going by the "free") language downloads. To me, at least. And not only that, he was producing high-quality podcasts at something like THREE TIMES the clip of the hosts for the other languages. To their credit, they didn't make a fuss when I (reluctantly) cancelled him/Korean as well soon after. The (genuine) reason I gave was that I knew -- after two business trips to Seoul -- that I needed to hear a female host as well, and they were gracious enough to do it and ask me to watch out for KC101. Well, I wasn't disappointed...

I now see that Mounia, one of the very good hosts of APOD101, is the person who did the standard survivalphrases.com 50+ lessons for Arabic, and am not surprised at all that they hired her for the full site. In a way, I think that the survivalphrases.com site is like an audition/test for future "-101" hosts.

Re: assimil: Those books really are something. I can't think of any imprint that would publish instructional stuff on languages like "Catalan" or "Occitan" or "Sicilian" or "Corsican" or "Breton" (or "Tamil"!) in a compact, non-academic, format that a layman could use easily for personal purposes without necessarily being a specialist in that language/ dialect.

So I know for sure that for my next annual holiday reunion in Gerona, Catalunya, I'll be picking up a set of Assimil's "L'Occitane Sans Peine" simply because my Catalan friend's father keeps mentioning the similarities between Occitan and Catalan. The goal is not (never!) to be "fluent" in Occitan, it's just a reasonably compact way to compare what little I know of Catalan, with Occitan.

KoreanClass101 is awesome! It's what got me listening to JPod101 recently and looking at the other Pod101 offerings. I agree with auntie and others on the awkwardness of the banter on Italian (and the one German lesson I listened to)... nice to know it's not just me. None of their sister sites mention German/French/ArabicPod101 at this point though... you'd have to randomly decide to try the url to find it. (Well, that's what happened for me at least.) It seems they want to grow them each a bit more before linking.

Aside from the individual hosts needing to be personable, the dynamic between the hosts has to sound entirely natural as well. This is what KoreanClass101 lucked out on right from the start (the whole team seems to be in synergy!) and ChinesePod now does really well (the initial lessons were still enjoyable, but not quite as natural as they are now).

auntie68,

The Assimil series in English usually ends in "with ease". I think the name is for the 4th generation referred to in the video above. I started Assimil Japanese a few weeks ago (audio from the library!). I never saw the previous generations, so I don't know what I'm missing out on, but I am quite impressed with the "watered-down" version. I could see it not working for everyone though... one needs to be ok with delayed gratification; there's no production until the "active" phase, which doesn't start until approx. 2 months into it. And 30-minutes per day is not enough for me anymore... an hour is more like it (in chunks throughout the day). They don't have the English version available for all their languages though; for example, Korean is only available in French =(

frances,

I remember getting those emails, too. I think I received one just about every day (or was it every other?) of the 7-day trial =/ It was... amusing.

@frances:

I don't think I've ever received any multiple e-mails like those you describe even though I've signed up for four (yes! 4! all the new languages) of their 7-day free trials recently. In each case, my username and password only appeared once, in the welcome e-mail which follows the e-mail that provides the link for validating the account (compulsory).

The multiple stuff you are getting from them definitely feels "off"; I'd be very careful not to subscribe from any link in one of those, much better to log in directly and do it from there instead.

@bryan:

Thanks so much for the info. I didn't know that Assimil did their "Sans Peine" series in English too. I have never used them before (too guilty; I have too much material anyway). They're expensive, by the way.

But each time I go to Paris, I will hover longingly in FNAC and marvel over the selection of exotic titles like of "Le Tamoul Sans Peine" (-> Tamil), "L'Occitane Sans Peine", "Le Catalan Sans Peine" etc. I peeped in the Thai and Indonesian versions and thought that the textbook was very user-friendly and clear even though it was pretty substantial -- even advanced -- for such a compact format. I particularly like the way the chapters are divided up into very manageable chunks, in a logical order.

This style of this series appeals to people like me, who love classics like Charles Duff's "French for Adults", "German for Adults" and "Russian for Adults" (a reprint of which I bought recently via amazon.com, even though I know I don't have time to study Russian, and had to stash it away in my storeroom because I was being tempted daily).

The Charles Duff books teach the fundamentals of the language very solidly, and they build a serious reading ability by including literature extracts very early on. They are dated, but that is something that appeals to me! The Russian version has political cartoons (in Russian) from the Cold War period...

I tried a couple of the GermanPod101 lessons, and agree with the commenters who described it as "reading from scripted banter". It wasn't any fun. Learning German from this podcast would be work, not entertainment. If my sister still lived in Germany I might take it on, but as it is I would need a very good reason to subject myself to this.

I have to say that KoreanClass101 is much better produced. The speakers all sound a lot more natural during the lessons. I think the language would be quite a bit harder for me, but it's an environment I would be more willing to spend time learning in. I enjoyed listening to the lessons, even as I felt completely intimidated by them. They did a great job, but the expression for "hello" was five syllables and included vowel and consonant sounds I have never heard before. The learning curve is unavoidable.

On the other hand, I signed up for a one-week free trial at KoreanClass101, and they started sending me two e-mails every day. These emails generally contain my password - don't they realize that email is about as secure as shouting across a crowded train station? They also follow patterns that I have learned to associate with spam. I got a message from them with the subject "Frances, I'm confused. Are you getting my emails?". The point of the email was to ask why, after three days of my free trial, I have not upgraded my account. WTF! I could definitely forgive them and subscribe anyway, but these people are running a legitimate business and should not be imitating the behaviors of the heirs of that deceased Nigerian prince who needs your help smuggling his money into the USA!

Despite this gripe, I still might subscribe if I decide I'm ready to take on basic Korean. If I decide to improve my German I'll look for other options than GermanPod101.

Changye, you mentioned studying StarTrek German earlier. The Assimil German (especially older editions?) is supposed to be good too. (see above video)

Fudawei, t's nice to see you back here. Regarding the Michel Thomas series, I'm wondering if you've spent time with the Assimil series. Polyglot Alexander Arguelles considers it the best all-around series for many languages (the older 2nd generation versions, not the watered down newer ones) and I believe one of his all-around favorites is the Assimil Russian course. He has started posting about different language course series in addition to introductions to various languages over on YouTube.

auntie, I listened to a few minutes of one of KClass101's podcasts and agree that the young guy seems very impressive. Ah, someday I hope to find the time to take investigae further...

Hi changye. I'm glad you like KCLASS101.

Well, I'm an Auntie, so I prefer Hyun-woo's voice. This young guy is THEIR Jenny Tzu (majoring in French language, fluent in English, and also a very advanced scholar of Chinese and Japanese). Best of all, he wrote to me my first ever letter in Korean! I spent a whole day translating the (short) letter, with two dictionaries, and also desperately looking up grammar points in the pdfs of the lessons that I had missed. I still don't know what to do that would be adequate to reciprocate...

Btw, changye, if you like Seol Yun's voice, you really ought to listen to Hyun-woo's niece Jeong-eun, especially the first "Advanced Audio Blog", in which he introduces her and they chat together. She sounds very mature but very sweet for an 18-year-old. And on Hyun-woo's last audio blog (#30), there is a nice picture of her in her smart school uniform, looking all of 15 years old.

Okay. I have to scoot now. Happy weekend!

Hi auntie68,

KoreanClass101 is really fascinating! I’ve already listened to several lessons. In particular, I like Seol Yun’s pretty voice and the way she talks, which may be the typical one by Korean girls, although her proficiency in English is not as good as, e.g. that of Jenny. It seems that I’m asking for the moon.

It is also interesting to know that explaining Korean grammar (and nuance) in English seems to be neither easy nor efficient. On the other hand, only literally translating Korean into Japanese would be enough for Japanese people, because Korean is very similar to Japanese in grammar and word usages.

Fans of Michel Thomas may want to be aware that in addition to the old stand-bys (French, German, Italian, Spanish), they have released MT Russian, Mandarin and Arabic.

Thomas himself died a few years back, so these are "in the style of" sort of things from his publisher and former associates. Frankly, the Russian is weak, the Mandarin is just plain bizarre (lots of silly mnemonics and gesturing), but the Arabic is rather interesting and (as far as I can tell) done rather well. They'll be doing Japanese, Portuguese and Dutch in the near future.

By the way, I've been absent from CPOD myself because I've been spending quite a bit of time at HebrewPodcasts.com ... pretty nice set-up still in its early stages of development.

Go for it, anzhiru! And don't forget to open up "International" in your System Preferences and make sure that you have set your keyboard shortcuts so that you can toggle between input methods (eg. between English and Chinese) by pressing the control key and the space bar.

It's like learning a whole new language! Thanks for the encouragement.

Try rsrh; it's particularly good for 词语. The predictive functions are pretty brilliant -- I typed 英国 with 4 keystrokes (yguo), tried mguo and got 美国。 法国 is fguo and so on...

Another thing which builds speed dramatically is getting a sense of rhythm. For me, it was tricky until I got the hang of when to hit the space bar or the return key. And in English typing, we have to create our own spaces after punctuation marks, in Chinese they get put in for you, so for a while I was hitting the return key unnecessarily and messing up my own typing. Bon courage!

Auntie,

Thanks for the tip. I'll try it out.

P/s: anzhiru, I am relatively new to typing Chinese characters (using ITABC, on a Mac), and I find that using the predictive feature as far as I can push it, is what enables me to type quite easily and quickly. You know, "xjp" for 新加坡; "zg" for“中国” etc. This way, you narrow down the selections dramatically.

Auntie, Yes imagine or suppose will also do, vorstellen oder annehmen! Henning it looks like you're well equipped. Joke.

I am sorry to hear of your troubles in Myanmar. I know how you feel, I lost good friends in Phuket a couple of years ago. It is a terrible situation.

Well it seems that pinyin is here to stay. I was completely on the wrong track when looking at the Korean stuff. Nice graphics though and not too difficult.

Hi anzhiru. The Korean characters you saw on KCLASS101 are a purely phonetic system. Pure pinyin. There is a little bit of "tone sandhi" at work in the orthography, but effectively, Koreans type phonetically unless they need to key in a Chinese character.

henning, how about "to imagine" or "to suppose" as a possible substitute for 以为?

I'm in grave danger of excessive posting this evening because the developing situation in Myanmar is so grotesquely horrible that I don't have the heart to go out tonight... A Myanmar friend of mine flew home to celebrate the Burmese New Year with her family and she was supposed to be back in Singapore sometime in the first week of May. I can't raise her on her Singapore cellphone and I am tempted to drive to her flat tomorrow to see if she's back in town. Okay, that's enough off-topic posting... I want to keep this thread free of politics, anyway.

Henning

The 以为 you use could very well go into English simply as "think" or German "meinen", (that ups the ante a little). The word think in English implies doubt.

OK you are forcing the issue. Of course, I use pinyin, as wubixing is a terrible system and nobody seems to support canjie for simplified characters, or at least Mac doesn't. But, and I know nothing about Korean, there just might be another way as demonstrated by this Korean site. I guess the question is how do Koreans type? Or are they also compelled to use some phonetic system.

Surely you also agree pinyin for typing is fraught with difficulties.

If pinyin is used a lot in Chinese schools then I rest my case, I will have to agree with you, there can be no other way. Something tells me it is not used that much.

Actually I just noticed that I miss an equivalent to 以为 in English or German...

anzhiru,

German spelling reform is a complicated matter; Kultusministerkonferenz voted for it unanimously (including the Bavarian side)...but then strong opposing forces voiced their opinion. After the reform of the reform of the reform of the reformnobody knows anything for certain. Which is fine with me.

From my observations I disagree that Chinese children get "almost no exposure" to Pinyin. Pinyin is very valuable and absolutely necessary. How else do you *type* characters (or are you using Wubi)?

I personally heavily rely on it to learn the spelling of a new character, even if there is no audio-player around. It is sufficiently accurate.

However, I strongly agree that it is a typical beginner's mistake to 以为 you can do without the characters that should be countered officially and early on. The officially communicated "We are only teaching spoken Mandarin" at CPod actually corraborates this misunderstanding.

Dear Auntie

Nobody is going to persuade me to take on yet another language, no matter how interesting.

I looked at KoreanClass101 as you asked. The biggest thought going through my mind was Chinese No Pinyin. I can elaborate. Every Chinese course I have ever seen is quite heavily dependent on pinyin. Yet all my Chinese friends say to me, well, you know, we are not really in to pinyin, which I can understand. But now I am thinking that Chinese children in school get almost no exposure to pinyin. That also ties in with what other Chinese friends say, I must learn more about pinyin, 等等; indicating that they know also nothing about it. So the obvious question is why be diverted, distracted, 迷上了 (I think this is a wonderful word, so typically Chinese), by pinyin. And this Korean site gives the answer. No it is not necessary. I am thinking of the world's first Chinese course with no pinyin. Like look no hands! It would be a sensation. Since CPOD has not yet ventured into the realm of written Chinese they have nothing to lose or destroy. They could venture it. They could launch themselves into written Chinese without pinyin but using Flash player in a very effective way. (BTW Pinyin is not that accurate in any case. It is more of a mnemonic than anything else. Just listen to the variation in the pronunciation of 红 on CPOD, for example. Being English I do not care. I truly understand the importance of a separation between pronunciation and orthograph. Henning may disagree, but I am still not sure that Bayern has agreed to the new spelling rules! Anyway just imagine the headache, the Germans change their spelling every twenty years or so, and the Dutch, and the Swedes, 等等.) So after this long diatribe, I can see we have a lot to learn. CPOD watch out. There is a whole unexplored world out there when it comes to education via the net.

anzhiru

Auntie, thanks for starting such a great thread. Now you've got me considering starting to study a host of languages when in fact, I am so busy that I should probably just stick to Mandarin for now. I agree that this thread is prompting a lot of useful comments, ideas and criticisms. I too have questioned the lack of structural continuity via a progressive course numerous times. There are times when it rears its ugly head and others where it proves to be a benefit in terms of maintaining interest for the learner. John Pasden mentioned somewhere (can't remember where I read it) that this lack of a progressive lesson sequence was 'a good thing'. I would love to hear more thoughts behind CPod's rationale behind the whole 'self-contained' lesson approach. I feel that there must be a way to provide the benefits of progression for the user while still maintaining freedom and interest. Finally, I have noticed that regarding the elementary-intermediate gap and other transitions, that the difficulty of both intermediate and elementary lessons has become less and less over the past several months. I'm sure there has been a conscious effort to do this such that there is more of a cross section of difficulty between the levels. This would only be evident if one were choosing lessons in a non-sequential order. For example, Intermediate lessons from say, 8 months ago often contain several phrases that are completely skipped over in the podcast discussion by John and Jenny whereas now, they discuss almost every chunk. This suits me more (perhaps partly due to my personality, partly due to my low level of understanding). Sorry to ramble here and I don't want to come off as a whiner. I feel that CPod is doing an amazing job, but we always want more, don't we?

P/s: Regarding grammar, I'm reading my way through a Mandarin reader from the 1980s, which has grammar sections in good, clear English that have really opened my eyes.

I know that I have posted several times at CPOD in the past on the need to be careful not to use English syntactical and grammatical concepts to analyse Chinese. It just doesn't work. What is normally a verb in English, may be an adjective in Chinese (and vice versa). Chinese also nominalizes adjectives etc (or turns verbal constructions into nominalized forms etc etc) in ways which cannot be explained easily using Indo-European grammar concepts.

If CPOD can break new ground in this area, they would be doing something that nobody else out there is doing. But at the moment, I know that words like "predicate" or "adjectival phrase" is banned in CPOD vocab (why? too long? CPOD users not educated enough?), even though I have used them so many times to try and explain basic things like 的 to anguished CPOD users, simply because I don't know how to do so without such words.

Sorry that I can't give any concrete examples from the grammar notes that I am reading now, but I'll try to do so here as soon as I have finished digesting them! It is clear to me that the way grammar is categorized, for analytical purposes, or even the way it is parsed, is very different in Mandarin that it is in Indo-European languages. Eg. 宾词 。

Dear anzhiru, I agree with your analysis. Btw, where video/graphics are concerned, what do you think of this FREE content on KoreanClass101.com :

http://www.koreanclass101.com/category/picture-video-vocab/

I find it really useful.

So I think we have the answer on what makes a good pod.

1. The interface to the audience has to be top class in accessibility, language skills, teaching skills and personality of its presenters, interest level for its target audience and so on.

2. The structure behind the interface has to be rich and consistent. Richness is required so that the pod becomes a one-stop shop. Consistency is required to prevent confusion.

The place to put grammar is not in the interface, at least not in depth, but in the structure behind. This is one area where Cpod can be enriched, by providing the grammar place. But I suspect a successful approach requires a new look at Chinese grammar. The usual books are not very helpful but Grammaire Active du Chinois by Philippe Roche is very interesting in its approach to Chinese grammar.

The other area which Cpod still has to fill is the written language. I think that is quite a challenge. The interface would need to be completely different. For a start video and graphics are a must. Then how do you mobilise efficient interaction with the audience?

Any ideas out there?

changye,

that is an interesting way of saying "we found no teacher"...

always dead serious

henning

Hi henning,

Thanks for your quick try. I’ve been wondering why there is no German version in that podcast, and just got the answer. I hear that German people are commonly very serious, and probably they are too diligent to see Japanese anime, therefore there are not so many people in German who would like to learn Japanese. It’s just a matter of supply and demand.

p.s. Pls look at Arabic version.

You can see a very beautiful teacher.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/lesson/arabic/fun/index.html

changye,

Just listened to two lessons.

Now I remember again how it felt when first contacting Chinese: lost. Different from Spanish or French there is no grip, it is all a flow of unfamiliar sounds.

But the Chinese-Japanese version is actually really fun (maybe in a masochistic kind of way). Never thought that Chinese might give me a familiar and understandable feeling...

;)

Oh, and you might also learn Swahili and Japanese in parallel with this one.

changye, thanks. I have already downloaded the book; it's really very attractive.

Hi auntie68 and guys,

If you would like to learn Japanese, I recommend you try this site first. It is offered by NHK, Japan Broadcasting Corporation, and fortunately it has been renewed recently. I don’t think this podcast will become your mainstay learning resource, but I’m sure that it is very helpful and useful as a starter.

The selling point of this podcast is that you can learn Japanese not only through English but also through thirteen languages in total, such as Arabic, Bengali, Burmese, Chinese, French, Hindi, Indonesian, Korean, Persian, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Swahili, Thai, Urdu, and Vietnamese.

Henning, I’m very sorry there is no German. Why don’t you choose “Chinese” so that you can learn Japanese and Chinese simultaneously and enjoy 一举两得/一箭双雕！Joking aside, there are only twelve lessons as of today, but it seems that NHK will upload a new lesson every day, or a few new lessons a week.

You can’t compare this site to other major podcasts such as Chinesepod or Spanishpod. But at least you can learn one hundred “compact” lessons in total, free of charge, accompanied by text, MP3 and PDF files. You can make good preparation using this podcast before the Japanesepod appears on the net.

Lesson sample

http://www.nhk.or.jp/lesson/english/learn/list/012.html

Top page (English)

http://www.nhk.or.jp/lesson/english/index.html

Language selection

http://www.nhk.or.jp/lesson/

Good point Auntie. Good job summing things up. The point about the hosts' appeal can't be stressed enough. So glad we have our trio of absolutely great hosts reeling listeners in with their personality and funny banter.

I tried the Jpod101, I liked some aspects of it but contrary to what you said, the vocab part didn't really stick with me. I don't really know why but I found it quite tiresome... didn't really appeal to me how the host would say "rises on the blahblah syllable, falling on the blahblah syllable."

I learned a bit though which I managed to charm my way around Tokyo Disneyland, so I guess it still worked.

Hello again. Thank you, everybody, for keeping this thread going. It looks like there is a consensus that: What makes (or breaks) a "-pod" is the quality of its hosts?

Where this "quality" is concerned, the hosts have to be absolutely articulate in ENGLISH, they must have attractive personalities, and they must be born teachers. Did I get that right?

One conclusion which this thread has led me to is: The high quality offered by JPOD101 and KCLASS101 shows that CPOD is not unique. But you have the right people in the front lines. So we all love and admire Jenny Zhu, but the competition too has "principals" of her calibre: Chigusa-san, Sun Hyunwoo, and now Mounia.

One feature of the other "-pods", which I hope CPOD will think about deeply, is: A somewhat more structured approach to the language acquisition, especially at the lower levels.

After all, we read so many comments -- daily -- on CPOD from anguished newbies and Ele's who have bought into Praxis' line that you can learn Mandarin from CPOD by going through a handful of designated "starter" lessons and thereafter flitting through lessons in any order you like. Well, how many "what is 的?" posts do we clock every day?

By "a more structured approach", I mean a couple of things. With JPOD101, I really, REALLY appreciate the "vocab" part of each lesson, where the hosts spend maybe three minutes going through new vocab, explaining it, and giving examples. And they do very good PDFs, with a grammar note (available to "Basic" subscribers). If CPOD did that, I think the Comments threads wouldn't be filled with so many questions from users who weren't quite sure whether they had caught the grammar point made by Jenny during the banter.

Another thing which might provide useful structure is: Doing difficult language points in a lesson series. Eg. in JPOD101 does the dreaded "giving and receiving" verbs over a number of lessons in a row, and there was another series on the "-nara" / "-ttara" etc constructions. I can see how a lesson series on the three "de"-s could be useful.

CPOD clearly has a bit of a problem with the transitions between levels, especially between Ele and Intermediate. Perhaps Intermediate should have its own "starter lessons" which will help to ease users into the Chinese banter vocab and -- generally -- the level of difficulty.

Ken, Jenny, John, I hope you know that I'm trying to give constructive feedback here!

Tried the arabicpod101 and I liked it.

And this is a really good thread, thanks for opening up the discussion auntie! I'm sure it'll not only help our dear Praxis but future podcasters as well.

I also like how the makers of pod101-series acknowledges Cpod, nice to know that it's all friendly.

I would expect that the "other pods" will improve with time. Chinese pod definitely has improved over time and the staff grew along with the lessons and their delivery. These guys make it sound easy but the truth is, we are blessed with a very talented group of dedicated teachers on the Chinese side. They are not just good, they are great. I might add that I tend to set the bar rather high. If only the suits at praxis measured up as well.

Auntie, very interesting comments. It would be good if someone crystallized the essentials of a good language pod. It would also be beneficial if someone worked out what is the most effective strategy for gleaning the most from the time at the pod. For example, there is a lot of angst in going up a level. Nobody really seems to have worked out what is the most effective way to do this; though there are some hints.

There are also clearly some advances which can easily be made in the functionality of our beloved pod. The flash card system could readily be made more sophisticated by incorporating interval learning. BTW I have no idea who to address this comment to.

I suspect that personality plays a huge role in the end. The teachers we have always most appreciated in our lives became so through the interactions of personality. It is the same with our pod.

As an end note, this is probably a good place to make a comment about Jenny. I am really surprised by the size of her English vocabulary, it is truly impressive. I am sure she has to bite her tongue regularly during recording!

Thanks everyone for all these discussions. I'll have to check out ArabicPod101 (SOMEDAY!)

I've tried REALLY hard to like Italian/SpanishPod101, but every time I listen to them, I'm sad to say I'm very turned off.

The best way I can describe it is that it feels very amateur, like high school students trying to entertain themselves. They feel "hokey", artificial. Yes, I agree with lunetta, sounds like they're reading scripted banter... and it's very awkward. This is particularly true for me regarding ItalianPod101. The advanced lessons are somewhat less irritating in this regard.

The banter generally feels "besides the point," it doesn't add to my language learning. The actual analysis of the dialogs is usually very strictly limited to defining the vocabulary, and doesn't feel like it brings any extra value over reading the vocab lists.

I also find the lessons rather short -- often only about 6 minutes.

One thing that they DO have right -- and I WISH CPOD, etc would pick up on it (HINT, HINT!!! :) is that the transcripts which you can view ON your iPod are better formatted. They have line breaks (at minimum) when ever they change languages, and between each dialog paragraph. This is SO much easier to process. I've given up on reading the CPOD transcripts on my iPod, my brain just can't hack it.

In short, when ever I listen to ItalianPod101, I decide to wait to see what Praxis comes out with... and I will happily check out FrenchPod while waiting :)

On a different note, comparing CPOD to SPOD... If I'm not mistaken, the CPOD people who perform the dialogs are different folks from the hosts. To my intermediate ear they sound like professional actors -- the dialogs sound very natural. And I like the change of pace of the different voices. Of course, there's a whole country of native Chinese speakers available to do so.

For SPOD, on the other hand, the folks performing the dialogs ARE the hosts (I think). And they seem a little less comfortable/natural during the dialog sections. But I concede there aren't a ton of native Spanish speakers lurking outside the office doors in Zhong Shan Park.

Praxis rocks, and they're producing material faster than I can consume it!

To me it seems like the hosts on ItalianPod are reading the banter from a script, it doesn't sound natural at all. Another issue is that both of the hosts are native speakers of Italian. When the woman began translating the dialogue into English it took me a moment to understand that she had actually switched from one language to another because of her heavy Italian accent. I don't know how big a problem this is to a native English speaking listener but I found it confused me. I think the CPod method with a native speaker of the language in question and a native English speaker as the 'student' is working much better.

Henning, I agree totally with you that the GermanPod101 is "not quite Praxis quality", and I also agree with EVERY ONE of the points you made. It's hard to put a finger on the precise thing that makes a difference. For me personally, I think that the key hosts for GermanPod101 just don't have the "personality" of our beloved John Pasden or Jenny Zhu. They sound awkward in the English banter, even the "American-speaking" host. Same goes for their ItalianPod101 (a language which I'm very comfortable in) and their FrenchPod101 (my true "second language).

Guess that's why I felt that ArabicPod101 was so much better, in some way. The Arabic-speaking hosts were completely on top of the material, even though I know next to nothing about that language, I appreciated the intelligence and the "presence" which shone through in the English-language banter (= read, "teaching").

Hi frances. Based on the "news" stuff posted on the JPOD101 site over the last year or two, it seems that they did things in a nice way.

Meaning, that Peter Galante approached CPOD (specifically, Ken Carroll) to ask for help and support in setting up JPOD101 along the lines of CPOD (Peter Galante's wife is Chinese), and in every interview Peter Galante has given (which I was able to read), he has given full credit to CPOD for this help. If this is true, I respect CPOD even more for it.

I like the "101" approach particularly because they managed to encourage even newbies and ele's to start writing and posting and reading in kanji/ korean hangul as soon as possible.

So you NEVER read any grumpy complaints about "hangul-only" posts, or about posts which use Kanji.

Another thing which I do appreciate is the fact that their lessons are not "stand-alone". Within some limits, lessons are more or less progressive, which they are able to swing because they start a new season of each level about once every year. Hmm...

Sparked by this conversation I went to koreanclass101 and tried out newbie lesson #1. Korean has always seemed extraordinarily mysterious to me with its very unusual written script. The site design seems suspiciously similar to ChinesePod, including the promotion offering a disk of the old lessons for opening a new premium account. What's that about?

The lesson design seems to be really similar too, so I suspect that it's a good instructional strategy. I want to stay concentrated on Chinese for now, but I think I might continue to try a few lessons in a low key way.

Just listened to GermanPod101, 1 Beginner-lesson, 1 AudioBlog entry.

The pronounciation in the Blog was OK but a bit unnatural with artificial blanks between the words. The speaker obviously put a lot of effort into speaking clearly and slowly. This contrasted with really tough words, like "Bollerwagen" , which you will hardly meet in everyday speech nowadays (or in fact in its physical manifestation)...

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollerwagen

The Beginner lesson was fine. Judith is obviously a native and she speeks like you would expect any Judith out there to speek.

I am not that convinced with the overall lesson format. It included some of those mistakes that CPod long overcame:

- too much ad content with hints on premium features

- really broad cultural parts, which are fine for one-time listening but should be separated into dedicated culture podcasts (because you do not want to listen to to them over and over)

- In some times the weight was a bit too heavy on individual word translations instead of introducing patterns or phrases

Further remarks:

- No Rammstein or Rammstein like music in the entries. Please.

- Too much of that "Don't mention" the war type of stuff. That was almost like that Fawlty Towers episode.

All in all not bad, although not quite Praxis quality.

I am impressed, however how that "101-series" already covers 8 languages. They surely are up front there.

Thanks for the props Hitokiri and Auntie! We were so elated that the great Jenny dropped by our site and even left a comment! Hahaha, perfect. :)

Auntie: My niece started learning that song as well! I think it's every little Filipino kids theme song. Weird coz it's about vegetables though - half of the song i have no idea what vegetable its referring to.

And I have a hard time differentiating qu and chu until now :P good thing for contexts and chinese subtitles (which sadly only helps in movies, not in real life. would be interesting though if it did. haha)

chillosk: Anytime! No one could replace you, Cris and Jovitt!

Guys: Oh yeah. TT (Tambay Talk) has a double entendre. haha:)

henning: I also hated Mandarin because I couldn't differentiate qu and chu back then. :)

henning, you're very welcome. I struggled so much in school with "Mandarin as a Second Language" that I would NEVER have dreamed of trying to learn any extra languages, had my school not offered me "French as a Third Language" when I turned 13. My French teacher taught me French without any kind of "baggage" -- or ridicule (unlike the Chinese teachers) -- and I am happy to blame this Mlle W for my thick-skinned willingness to make a fool of myself in any language...

Hi chillosk! I do love kalyespeak, am feeling very guilty because I haven't posted any kind of review yet, but I do love what you guys are doing. Am a bit distracted at the moment because I have seriously offended our new housekeeper (who is a mature Filipina, and not only that, the Tita of the Stunt Toddler's amazing Yaya's husband -- ouch! I think you know how claustrophobic and emotional things can get in a traditional Asian household). So now is not the best time to ask, "Why do you say X instead of Y?" In the meantime, my Tagalog Fever is being fed by the Stunt Toddler, who has adopted "Bahay Kubo" as his signature song. He sings it really well!

Thanks auntie for that valuabe thread!

Actually the Changye's posts on etymology, characters, and overlaps to Japanese fuel my interest in Japanese more and more. Please, Changye do not even add more oil with Star Trek, I do not have the time for Japanese...

Can't believe that I hated languages so much when young & in school & stupid.

Hitokiri, thanks for the plug. Haha, at least folks know where to head to learn Filipino while Praxis hasn't started with Pinoypod, haha.

Thanks auntie for the insights on the different podcasts! I tried Japanesepod101 before but I don't know, I guess my bias towards Praxis Pods kinda turned me off to Pod101. I'll check out the ArabicPod101 though. Sounds interesting, although I'll always be loyal to Praxis, haha, can't wait for Praxis to start ArabicPod!!

Actually, it's thanks to those lazy a** guards who just let people come and go without even inspecting them.

Glorietta it was! That's why I was so shocked when there was a bomb not too long ago! The security there was so thorough -- Cf the usual slapdash half-hearted Singaporean "security" -- that I still can't believe the bombers pulled it off...

By any chance, is it Greenbelt or Glorietta or SM mall? If you come here, I might be the only one touring you around. Ate lives with my dad and I live w/ my mom.:)

Hitokiri, no no no NO, I don't think we were in Koreatown. But the next time I visit, the Philippines, I hope that you and your sister Alice will meet up with me and show me what you love most? The kimchi was in a heavily-guarded supermarket in a heavily-guarded gated shopping complex. There was a swanky "Ayala" residential compound somewhere nearby; some instinct given off by the surroundings told this humble Auntie NOT to make any sudden moves in front of any of the layers and layers of private security guards!

I've heard that there was a Koreatown in Makati. Wow! You went to Makati! That's cool! There's an awful lot of Koreans there. :) Night mom! ;D

changye: What's ようこそ(Youkozo)?

Hi changye and hitokiri6993! First, I need to thank my uncle changye for responding so generously and sincerely to my serious (but BIG) request. Everything you wrote resonated with me, I think I had that "feeling" too. But that is perhaps because I am a middle-aged Auntie, aged 40, and my only Japanese friend in Singapore is my student's mother, who is herself the daughter of a neurosurgeon in Tokyo, as well as being the daughter of the heiress of a very traditional tea company.

Still, I appreciate JPOD101 for the reasons you raise: If that's how the many Japanese people speak these days, I am happy to learn how to understand it. The latest "audio blog" lesson was about handphone charms, which is about as far removed from my everyday Auntie life as ... rap. But I do like the way the "native speaker" hosts bully the American boss (Ken Carroll's counterpart) when he pushes the envelope too much and says something that they find plain weird.

Hitokiri, I am not even a newbie in Korean, but I'll never forget my first shopping trip to a gated shopping mall in Makati, where the "kimchi" display was bigger and more splendid than anything I had ever seen before in Singapore. Here we are lucky if the kimchi company -- eg. Nongshim -- provides a very little chiller to display its house brand of kimchi. So for this Auntie, a gated shopping complex in Makatia was the most incredible kimchi display she had ever seen in her life, I never saw anything like that even taking account two business trips to Seoul.

Best night-time wishes to all the kind souls out there, especially hitokiri (who feels a bit like a son to me!) and changye (who feels like a kind cousing to me!)...

changye: You're learning 한국어 (韓國語)? I can teach you! I know elementary Korean, thanks to the Korean population here whom I could practice on.:) There should be Koreanpod after launching Italianpod. I've heard that it has the same grammar and particles as Japanese. So, I think you should have no problem with grammar, 한글-wise, take note of the compound word pronunciation changes.내한국어는ok다.파이팅!(我的韓國語馬馬虎虎！ 加油！）

Guys, if you want to learn Filipino..pls. visit Kalyespeak (operated by our own chillosk!) here's the site:http://kalyespeak.mypodcast.com/

Hi auntie68,

By the way, what do you think about the picture in the lesson pages of Japanesepod101? I can’t understand why they chose such an unsophisticated and poor-tasted one. A white-faced “strange” geisha and “ようこそ” in the photo. Can you believe that sense? I can’t stand it.

http://www.japanesepod101.com/index.php

Hi auntie68,

My chubby dog is full up and playing on the bed now.

I’ve just finished listening to two audio blogs, two intermediate lessons, and one beginner lesson of Japanesepod101. My impression is that Japanese spoken there is, in general, a little more strange or funny than I remembered. I understand now why you asked me to listen to them.

Firstly, Japanese spoken by Miki and Yoko in audio blogs are kind of disastrous. Of course, both of them speak grammatically correct Japanese, but they always talk in an unnaturally nasal and childish voice. Middle-aged people, like me, usually don’t like such a way of speaking.

But actually there is a lot of Japanese women, especially under thirty years old, who speak like that, which means, like it or not, you have to familiarize your ears with that kind of voice. In that sense, Japanesepod101’s policy might be right. But you must NOT imitate their way of speaking.

Secondly, Natsuko and Naomi in intermediate lessons are not so bad. They speak beautiful Japanese, although none of them reach the standard of professional announcers. The dialogues are good, but a male voice actor sometimes speaks very unnaturally, probably it is intentional.

Lastly, I didn’t find problems in the beginner lesson. Yuichi speaks Japanese the way young guys usually speak, e.g. on the radio. In a sense, Japanesepod offers very “real” Japanese. Conversely, you don’t find any professional (or good) voice actor or “announcer” there, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Auntie, your hunch is right.

True... I have to agree with your (native and REAL) logic, goulniky. I can't lose anything listening to the next few podcasts for FrenchPod101.com, and -- basically -- anything in nice French is worth listening to. I bet it does more good for me than my usual "French caloric intake" via TV: viz., re-runs of "La 'Crim", "P.J. St Martin", "Avocats et associes" and -- in the Canadian food group -- the pretty uniquely Canadian humour of "Catherine". No French TV for me tonight, because the only thing on this evening is "La Bete du Gevaudan", and Sagamore Stevening doesn't take off his shirt in any scenes! Sorry if any of this horrifies real French people out there!

not sure how real I am, also considering that I am a little on the excentric side myself. 'Il en faut pour tous les goûts' I suppose, 萝卜青菜，各有所爱 (luóbo qīngcài, gèyǒu suǒ'ài).

I hadn't heard of 点字/盲字翻译员 (diǎnzì/mángzì fānyìyuán) before, I'm sure they exist, but hey, the lesson title was 'Weird jobs' so they're not trying to 骗人(piànrén) ! They must have made a conscious decision to be entertaining, and rightly so, it's true that Braille isn't heard all that often but it's still a potential lead into explaining grammar patterns etc.

Hi goulniky, Thanks for your post. As a non-native French student, I was a bit struck by the "les escapades de petitrenaud" feel to some of the phrases, eg. "Je suis traducteur de braille!", including the accent/ delivery, which felt very correct but still a bit strange as a choice for a "sample sentence"... Just curious to know what you, a real Frenchman, think...

just registered to FrenchPod101.com, only listened to Beginner Lesson #2 - Weird Jobs. As a native speaker I can testify that both French speakers are 真正的 (genuine). Topic is rather entertaining albeit of limited use, the woman is lively. Not entirely conviced by some of their repetition patterns but I can't really judge from one lesson, much less compare with the upcoming FPod.

Hi tallchinesefrog, I think I only fit in all these languages by having very low standards. I'm not joking. My "best" foreign language ability, for anything but French (my only real second language) is: Receptive Ability only. Horrrible at writing. Sounds ridiculous (or even insulting) when speaking". That's the honest truth...

For God's sake, uncle changye, please FEED PATRICIA!! Now!!!! For my nephew, the Stunt Toddler (aged 2 years and 10/12), letting four hours pass between meals is a violation of human rights. This little boy doesn't have a sweet tooth, and he doesn't snack, but he really suffers if we don't feed him a solid meal every four hours. Please feed Patricia!

I have enough trouble finding time and brain space to learn one language at a time, how do you cope learning so many.

Internet speed is unbelievably slow here at this time of day. Please give me some time. Furthermore, my chubby dog is starving to death now.......

Wow, Germanpod101, you can get everything on the net now! Thanks again.

Hi again, uncle changye, It seems that our posts overlapped. I don't know of any really, really good site where somebody can learn German via podcasts. So sorry! The Evil Praxis Competitor Site-- ie GermanPod101.com -- is not bad, but the English "banter" is far from fluent, to my silly ears, and the

German itself doesn't sound... erm,,, "elegant". I know that in 21st Century Germany, a "standard" German accent is not so important, but the language is a bit less than 100% neutral in my (silly Auntie) opinion, even though my German is really, REALLY bad because I had German boyfriends -- back-to-back -- during the few years when I had to pass German exams. They did my homework for me! For the exam, I only had C+ because of that!

Hi auntie68,

I got it. Let me advise you later.

Hello uncle changye. If I may ask you one (one! quite big!) favour: Could you please help this Auntie by listening to one or two "Audio Blog" and "Upper-Intermediate" podcasts by JapanesePod101, and tell me -- frankly, please! -- whether you think they are (i) lovingly teaching; or else (ii) destroying your beautiful mother tongue? Thanks so much for indulging this silly Auntie.

Hi auntie68,

By the way, do you happen to know a good podcast to learn German? I’m planning to relearn the language with the hope that I will talk about Star Trek with henning in German.

I listened to some lessons of Japanesepod before, and I think that they are very good. But I must say that the more I listen to other podcasts, the more I feel that our Jenny is really great!!

Hi auntie68,

THANK YOU for info about KoreanClass101. I didn’t know that at all. I’ve just visited the site and downloaded a lesson file. My impression is that it is pretty good. I will learn Korean mainly by listening KoreanClass101 from now on.

P/s: The ArabicPod101.com PDFs are very impressive, the transcriptions are in:

1. Arabic script WITHOUT vowel marks;

2. In Arabic script WITH vowel marks (as one cute female host said, so endearingly, "...like in children's books and the Qu'ran");

3. In their own (but still fairly standard) Romanization, which made a lot of sense to me, because it preserves the Arabic orthography, but is more logical and user-friendly than all the scary stuff out there without being too "nouveau".

As far as I can tell, it's actually based on a well-known Arabic romanization system which is like Hanyu Pinyin or Wade-Giles. Besides, they explain it efficiently and in a friendly way in a "News" podcast entitled "Romanization";

and

4. In English (good, clear, appropriate, English).

Plenty of attention paid to "levels" and "politeness", without being overwhelming or intrusive. Not surprisingly, considering what a great job these people do with the levels/ politeness thing in Japanese and Korean.

Re: ArabicPod101.com -- This one is very, very new. I have been longing to learn Arabic for a long while, but never really gave it a go because the materials (esp. podcasts) were simply not available.

So all I've "done" is a slim, 166-page pocketbook-format book by John Mace entitled "Beginner's Arabic Script" (2003; under the "Teach Yourself" imprint"). This little book does an outstanding job of teaching the reading and hand-writing of Arabic characters, and it does a good job building a foundation vocab of about 300 distinct words.

Over the past year, I have been downloading -- but not listening to! -- the podcasts and PDFs from ArabicPod.Net, which is pretty impressive considering that it is done by earnest amateurs.

Listening to my first two ArabicPod101.com podcasts (1. Survival Phrases; and 2. Romanization), I was struck by the incredible difference made by truly gifted and articulate hosts who are also very good teachers. The hosts were ALL brought up in more than one country (eg. Jordan, Syria, Saudi, Kuwait, Morocco, the US), and this sensitivity/ world view shines through. But in a good way.

Although I know next to nothing about Arabic, I fell in love with the hosts. Those ArabicPod101 girls all seem to be living in North- or South Carolina, and their English is so lovely and lilting and refined and lovable and "Southern" (though not intrusively so) that it made me think of mint juleps, gentle afternoons on the porch, and flower shows. Guess I'm an Auntie through and through... but I liked it, I really did.

For me, the sheer quality of the English "banter" was what raised the ArabicPod101 team well above the standard of the parent company's other new launches (eg. ItalianPod101.com, GermanPod101.com, FrenchPod101.com). Something in those girls' voices when they were explaining a point in English reminded me strongly of our very own Jenny Zhu, and that is a VERY high bar by my standards.

I hope this info is useful, on some level, to somebody out there, and I apologize (but accept no liability whatsoever therefor) if anybody's "language podcast budget" gets busted as a result. In conclusion, I would wait to see how FrenchPod.com (by Praxis) turns out before rushing to sign up for FrenchPod101.com, but I wouldn't hesitate to sign up for ArabicPod101.com.

Very interesting. Can't wait to read your insights!

First off, just to give you an idea where I stand, I consider KoreanClass101 to be fully on par with CPOD (perhaps even being better, in terms of certain features eg. the "grammar notes" with every PDF etc), and JPOD101 is not far behind CPOD and KCLASS101.

Since there has been so much excitement amongst CPOD users over the impending launch of FrenchPod.com, I'd like to share that I was pretty impressed by FrenchPod101 (don't mix them up!).

They only have a few lessons in at this point, but so far this is my verdict: The French is very clear and neutral (a bit "BCBG", even, to my surprise), but always natural-sounding. And clear, too. One weakness that I detect is the French hosts' -- unobtrusive -- lack of comfort with the English "banter", which will probably clear up after they have done more lessons.

Of course this Auntie's dream FrenchPod101 would have had the male host sounding more like Thierry Lhermitte, but life isn't perfect, and not everybody has the tastes of a middle-aged Singaporean Auntie.

Btw, in case you are curious, French was my minor at University, many many years ago. Entry to that programme required at least a B-grade pass in "A"-level (= US 12th grade) French, and we had to do a "year abroad" studying our core subject (= law, for me) in a university where this was taught and examined in French. But I have been learning and using the language ever since, for professional and personal reasons, and have close French friends who only speak French. My written French is hideous; a French person would say, "ca peine!".

Okay, on to ArabicPod101 in the next comment...