Did you miss any Newbie vocab?

oh yeah, another lesson I meant to study but didn't get around to it.

Also about bird walking and same lesson avatar even. Well remembered babyeggplant.

"it's probably difficult to make interesting newbie lessons using only high frequency vocabulary"

...absolutely...good point. Though in fact CPod has done a superb job of doing just that when it comes to the newbie dialogues because all these higher level words are taken from the supplementary vocab, and the newbie dialogues pretty much stick to newbie type vocab...and CPod have managed to do this for well over 300 newbie lessons...quite a feat. So I guess instead of viewing the supplementary vocab as essential newbie vocab, I think it's there more as explanatory, to expand, or even for reference because if you're about to engage in a conversation on that topic, it might be nice to know some of that higher language.

I think 奶精 is an interesting example here. If you don't drink coffee you may pretty much never use it [unless you're with someone who does]...so it may be a rare word for you. On the other hand, folk who drink coffee every day may use it on a daily basis potentially..if they add the stuff that is. So it may be a very regular word for them and one they want to learn early in the language acquisition journey.

Here it is: http://chinesepod.com/lessons/getting-old-isnt-easy

I think you're right that it's definitely more suitable for upper intermediate. Anyhow, it's probably difficult to make interesting newbie lessons using only high frequency vocabulary, so that may be why there is some overlap.

ha, bingo. I've just found something telling, namely 潇洒 shows up in the vocab tab of this lesson:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/shaolin-temple#vocabulary-tab

...so here we have a "newbie" word...from supplementary vocab also showing up as a vocab word in an Upper Intermediate lesson. In my mind, it is more of an Upper Intermediate type word [or at least somewhere in between, certainly not newbie...but I grant that newbie supplementary maybe just throwing it in there as an early introduction, so it may have at least some familiarity when you meet again at the higher more appropriate level]....so now I feel a little better, hehe.

hang on, this was the lesson I thought you were referring to:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/walking-the-bird#discussion-tab

but I can't see it in there. Did it come up in the lesson banter, or were you thinking of another lesson? Don't go to any trouble though, I'm just curious, it's not that important.

ah, I remember there was a lesson about bird walking but I never studied it though it sounded like an interesting topic and I meant to get back and have a proper look. I've just been thinking I need to start reading. Thanks for your feedback babyeggplant

I remember learning that in some lesson about bird walking. I haven't heard many people use it when speaking, but I have come across it quite a few times while reading.

硬卧

间谍

冷场

haha , well maybe you're becoming more and more like the Chinese then the longer you stay there....it's all implied nonverbally, understood, no need to be demonstrative, hehe ;)

btw your comment on 协's radical was interesting

'because you're such a helpful and harmonious guy , and you no doubt get told so on a regular basis'

Not around home. Well, not enough anyway. :)

I did say a 'fairly high frequency' word - obviously not as high frequency as 帮助 - and to be honest not one that I use. But my wife referred to it the other day (can't have her getting the better of me) and the character then sparked my interest. It is used by some businesses to describe their offerings - she saw it on the hoarding of a services type joint.

HSK level 6 hey, ... well there you go. If you hold off getting to HSK level 6 you may have trouble finding the right shop!

"协助的协 xiézhù - a fairly high frequency word"

...really? jeepers, there's another hole. I know it's cousin , the newbie/ellie 帮助 of course, but can't say I knew this one.

hang on, just looked it up....协助 is HSK level 6 , and the characters on their own don't get a HSK rating so according to HSK it's only for the most advanced students [there you go mate....you're very advanced...and not only that, it obviously seems high frequency to you because you're such a helpful and harmonious guy , and you no doubt get told so on a regular basis ;) ]

" I would not mind betting that the 'human' translators make liberal use of machines!" 你说的很正确!

Hi akalovid

没关系 .. and now you are helping me. :)

And you are right about 人工, that does make sense; I was reading it as the more usual (?) meaning of 'artificial'. In this sense it is used to draw a distinction between man-made and natural, artificial and natural.

It seems that 人工 here has two rather (potentially) contradictory meanings - (i) artificial and (ii) 'made by humans'. I was assuming a meaning along the lines of machine translation - artificial - but it could equally mean a translation undertaken by humans, you are right. And that would explain the two buttons.

Mind you - I would not mind betting that the 'human' translators make liberal use of machines!

My heartfelt pleasure! It so happens that you were the very first person on Chinesepod to help me with a question :)

人工 is manpower - I didn't know it, just looked it up, but it makes sense. So I suppose 人工翻译 is human translation - which you could buy through their website.

自动 is automatic (again I looked it up).

Ok, akalovid mate, you're a champion. I made it more difficult than I needed to. I got to that page and then went to 翻译 which then has two options, 自动翻译 and 人工翻译. Now I've been just using 自动翻译 (attracted by the 自动 bit), but this raises another question - what is the difference between 自动翻译 and 人工翻译 I wonder? Only the former works smoothly, as a translation just pops up, including translations of sentences. The latter button takes you to a page where it looks like you have to purchase something (I didn't explore further.)

But as you say - the very first page gives you a an output much like nciku - some sample sentences provided. Thanks again.

Hi, bodawei,

I just go to (http://dict.youdao.com). I dont have anything fancy installed. I type in 燕子 and I get a lot of examples like 一只燕子飞过去了.

What is more: I type in "I trust that" and get:

我相信，对于肩上承担的避免违约的责任，希腊的政治领袖们有着充分的认识

No worries rich .. 没关系

Thanks for your tip on top of a tip. I didn't realize it has sentence samples - can't see them. I have been using it for looking up translations the last couple of days. I am just on the web site fanyi.youdao.com.

Do you have to install the dictionary on your hard disk to access sample sentences?

Priceless tip. I've long been searching for this kind of dictionary in Chinese!

Ah, I see bodawei...sorry I wasn't clear on what you were doing. Yeah, with Youdao, while many dictionaries may be wrong, at least it gives a lot of English/Chinese sentence translations it finds on the 'net...and yes, while those translations can be wrong, if you get enough of them, you can figure out how a word/phrase is usually used.

Hi rich

now I recognise this dictionary as the one most Chinese people I know use on their phones. Anyway, I've been using it on my laptop and it seems pretty good. Thanks again.

Thanks for the reference rich, I haven't used that one before that I recall. I may have mislead some readers though with my post. I was not trying to define each term - rather the opposite (trying NOT to define each term!) while at the same time giving some clues, so as not to spoil it for those who might be trying to test themselves without looking up a dictionary. Just a bit of fun.

The problem with dictionaries is that they are wrong almost as often as they are right, or at least not terribly helpful, a common problem for learners living outside China. It is not uncommon to find dictionary entries that are not so much wrong as just not used, or commonly used, in China.

A good online dictionary that I often use, both the website and the downloadable free dictionary software with mouse-over, is http://dict.youdao.com ... these words you can find the meaning there.

thanks mate...interesting to get your thoughts on these :)

"I think of CPod as being more function based language than anything. For example, if I wanted to know how to get a haircut in China I would go straight to CPod. It was not designed originally to teach vocabulary or grammar in a systematic way. (For example, learn the 100 most common words first, then the second 100, and memorize lists with no context)"

完全同意

“There are those of us who always touch the paint behind the "Wet Paint" sign, just to be sure.”

lol....great example, haha :)

I think of CPod as being more function based language than anything. For example, if I wanted to know how to get a haircut in China I would go straight to CPod. It was not designed originally to teach vocabulary or grammar in a systematic way. (For example, learn the 100 most common words first, then the second 100, and memorize lists with no context) When I want to check on word usage these days I always to go Jukuu, partly because the search function in CPod seems to be a bit hit a and miss.

Re: "But do such warnings ever work, or only to increase curiosity, hehe?"

There are those of us who always touch the paint behind the "Wet Paint" sign, just to be sure.

here's one: 贵 one of the first words I think most would learn[ at least I think it was in my first dozen or so words I learnt], showing up in this intermediate lesson vocab:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/negotiating-price#vocabulary-tab

..of course, these things are all very arbitrary, and I guess also somewhat reflect "learning on your terms" rather than a systematic system built from the ground up. The higher levels are while introducing higher level language, at the same time are plugging the numerous holes that you'll get in a self directed course I guess.

ok, my comment about vocab listed in the vocab of Intermediate and Uppers sometimes being newbieish was something I have only observed occasionally and I haven't made a mental note where those lessons are [but I have commented on it once or twice] but I thought I'd just take a peek at the latest Intermediate to see if there were any candidates there. I'd say that, while these may not be the best examples of my point because as I say I've just gone to the latest lesson and it only happens occasionally, there are some suspect characters there: 的话，如果，开玩笑，还好 for example are probably no higher than Ellie. I guess if you're on a narrow track through the levels it's there for those who've missed it earlier, but I have seen more surprising vocab before.

"My Chinese is built on a foundation of Swiss cheese"

haha, this is a good comment. In my own mind I had a pictogram with vocab being like an upside down pyramid [newbie vocab at the bottom] and my knowledge being like an upright pyramid inside that body of vocab, but I like your analogy better...more colourful.

"and maybe should still be there"

...nah, diminishing returns. I've had to go through close to 300 lessons to come up with those 8 words. I know you were joking though, hehe.

"Curses, you've ruined my day"

hehe, maybe I should have put a warning at the start of the thread...disclaimers about demoralising, hehe, but I guess the title was enough of a hint at that. But do such warnings ever work, or only to increase curiosity, hehe?

a good thought mate, and I'm sure that happens often enough, but I've struck this several times before and in those cases that wasn't what was going on as far as I could see

Maybe sometimes when you see a "simple" or "common" word in the vocabulary for intermediate lessons it is using a different definition or nuance from the more common one to which newbies would be introduced.

"I recognised 1, 4, 6 and 8"

hehe, well done chris. You know mate, you were the first person I thought of when I started this post because I was pretty sure you'd worked through them all chronologically and methodically [where are you up to with that now mate....part way/most of the way through Intermediate aren't you? ] and I thought...I bet chris doesn't have any holes, hehe.

"Anki SRS"

I've had anki for years now, and from time to time I have told myself I must use it, but then I've never had the discipline for it. Maybe I just will some time though. Actually, I'll probably do skritter instead when I find the time and motivation.

"like you, I have worked through all of them chronologically from 2005 to today"

hehe, I'd say I've just done a quick flyover, as I've only done it since last weekend, and only listened to the dialogues and looked at supp vocab....I would never catch up if I listened to the whole lessons, and I wouldn't get much out of them now anyway. I'm contemplating whipping through ellie dialogues, but theres more of them than newbie now, the dialogues are twice as long. I might do a similar post to this one on the ellies, but there could be an explosion of holes...or an implosion...maybe it'll all become like a huge black hole, hehe.

btw I just tried the search function again...instead of glossary, this time using lesson search and it didn't come up under the English or the Hanzi either. Also, previously if something didn't come up under a standard search you could go to an advanced search function and tick everything and get better results, but there doesn't appear to be an advanced search option any more. What gives?

"I guess if I plug any of those into the search box for glossary I can find out what lesson they are in"

...actually I just tried this with 奶精 above so as to give bodawei a link and came up with zippo [so had to go search for it amongst the many newbie beverage lessons]. If nothing else, at least that tends to suggest maybe it isn't such a high frequency word after all. In retrospect, I guess I should have provided a link to each lesson from the start [or should I....the lesson link gives a hint to the subject, and if it was to be a true test, you'd have no such clues]

A great little test Baba. I recognised 1, 4, 6 and 8, but more because I think these have recently cycled around on my Anki SRS flashcards! I certainly don't remember them from Newbie lessons and, like you, I have worked through all of them chronologically from 2005 to today. Some of them admittedly seem quite tough for a newbie lesson.

"good grief"

haha, I love that expression, but it always reminds me of Charlie Brown...perhaps that increases it's appeal

"Curses, you've ruined my day"

hehe, sorry mate. Actually, I think CPod became more and more structured in their approach with time, and developed a stronger sense of what vocab was appropriate for each level, but still, sometimes I've seen very simple newbie like vocab listed under vocab tab of Intermediate, even Uppers I think, and in the cases I've listed above I wouldn't be surprised to find them also as being vocab for higher level lessons. The newbie dialogues themselves are all very simple and have stuck to the level, but I think it was in the end actually exclusively in the supplementary vocab [yes you're right] where these words were found. I guess they may not have been necessarily thinking here's some high frequency newbie words for you, but rather, here's some topic related vocab for you in case you are wondering/ want to expand.

good grief . . . I thought I was an intermediate, but now I realize I should have started with Newbie! (and maybe should still be there) Curses, you've ruined my day. My Chinese is built on a foundation of Swiss cheese. I guess if I plug any of those into the search box for glossary I can find out what lesson they are in. I presume they are part of "supplementary vocabulary."

Hi Baba

Got it now, when I said 'wrong' I thought it meant 'cream' (which is what I think nciku has). Actually, although I have never come across this word, I have certainly encountered the stuff itself - much instant coffee is sold with it already included (strange). My limited surveys on the subject of coffee have the majority of Chinese people who drink coffee, drink it at home as instant. Hardly anyone admits to trying it in a cafe, or drinking it more than once. Just the other night someone said they'd tried espresso coffee at a cafe but they much prefer the instant version 咖啡粉. As I did myself at one stage. You certainly develop a taste for something and it takes time to shift your preferences.

ok, a quick google search validates it:

http://www.google.com.au/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=960&bih=690&q=%E5%A5%B6%E7%B2%BE&oq=%E5%A5%B6%E7%B2%BE&gs_l=img.3...2285.2285.0.3284.1.1.0.0.0.0.197.197.0j1.1.0...0.0...1ac.2j1._D1Rja0HMDA

see answer below. It makes sense to me, but obviously I've not heard of it before so I can't vouch for it's validity,but even if not common I reckon it'd be right. I'll never forget it now though, hehe

'to avoid a spoiler' & 'beverage lessons' (below)

Well that just about spells it out, but I can't believe this - if it is what I think it is now (haven't listed to the lesson - I have to find it in iTunes these days) - that is so 'wrong'. Which doesn't sound like ChinesePod. I've been around beverages and I have never heard this word used 'on the street'.

BTW - a new 90 degrees coffee outlet opened near us yesterday - I used to bleat on about this when we lived in Kunming, finally Chengdu has caught up. Ha ha. We used to get large capuccinos for 8 rmb in Kunming, double shots, and now here the list price is 10 (inflation?) plus 3 for the second shot. I just need to work on them ... they charged extra at first in Kunming until I explained to them the coffee facts: you can't sell a large coffee with one shot; two shots is the standard recipe for a large. Once they understood this they stopped charging for the double shot.

So as to avoid a spoiler for anyone who may want to try and work it out here, I'll just give you the lesson it was taken from:

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/how-do-you-take-your-coffee#vocabulary-tab

'be careful with the second one mate,'

I still don't know Baba (see my post below). I guess I am not very imaginative. Expressed mother's milk?? Just a guess.

btw, regarding "a couple I think I might guess", be careful with the second one mate, hehe

"for general usefulness in everyday living the Newbies are the best"

yeah, well one reason I decided it was high time I listened to all the newbie dialogues...see what I'd missed out on, try and shore up any holes, and for the first proper time, do some revision...try and get newbie level tucked away, haha.

"And I can't be 100% sure of the meaning of ANY of the above"

hehe, yeah, thanks for your honesty...makes me feel better.

"a couple I think I might guess"

...yeah me too...often I know the individual characters but haven't struck the combo

"If they are recent lessons"

..no, I've worked chronologically from the start and have just reached the point where I joined in Aug 2008....but for the year or two before that there was nothing new...it's starting to seem like the older lessons had more higher level type stuff thrown in the supplementary vocab. There almost seems to be a definite line where things changed around that time not only in the supp vocab but also the quality of the dialogues.

"I've got plenty. Holes that is"

hehe, yeah, me too :)