List of English words of Chinese origin

I've been reading 'Mason & Dixon' by Thomas Pynchon lately and one of characters, Dixon I think, is completely obsessed by the 'kechap' made by the Malays living in Cape Town where part of the novel takes place.

Actually, after further research, it seems that ketchup/catsup might come from Malay or something, too. But, I still like the Chinese version.

Nice thread of messages going on here. Wonder where it will get you? hahaha

Folk etymologies have always been so tricky and you can easily get carried away and find yourself concocting your own etymology. Can any of you contact a real linguist to enlighten us about this issue? By the way, does any of you lot know a book by a Chinese author that was published in mainland China with the topic "Lexical Borrowings from English into Chinese"?

Baked beans are just baked beans here, Aunty. No sauce is mentioned, although there is definitely a ketchupy-molassesy thing going on there. :-)

I always thought ketchup was from Indonesian "kechap"...although maybe that is somehow related to the Chinese?

OK... (see, I'm still not satisfied with the simple facts) OK, so the word came from Chinese and was adopted into common use in every Chinese-word pilfering country except Australia? So there must be a really really really interesting story behind that odd outcome, if only we knew it!

BTW, here we have Heinz, you see it everywhere, and it's called "Heinz Tomato Sauce". And we all grew up snacking on cans of "Heinz Baked Beans in Tomato Sauce" too. So what does everyone else call it then, baked beens in catsoup?

as Mike said, France too, but that's probably due to the serious marketing of H.J.Heinz (and later fast food chains) - every kid knows and wants it.

AuntySue & MikeinEwshot:

Ketchup is used in Germany, too - word and sauce ;-)

Hi Bazza - yes we missed each other - I am not sure our time overlapped though - I may have left before you got there - I decided to go to Suzhou on Saturday 20th.

Maybe next time. Otherwise in England sometime. If you are down near North Hampshire/ Surrey way, give me a call.

Hi Mike, sorry I didn't get to meet up with you in the end. My hotel let me down on the internet front.

AuntySue

The work ketchup is used in England and (I am pretty sure) in France too.

It's from Chinese, eh? Really? I've only heard that word in movies from the USA, and when I do it's confusing, it sounds like a sneeze or a ... Anyway, here we call it: tomato sauce.

Strange how a Chinese word can become so common just in one country, whereas the other words are widespread. But... are you sure it's from Chinese? If so, there must be something more to its history, something fascinating that we haven't guessed yet.

Rich, that's a good one! I never put that together. I always thought that "ke tsup" was Cantonese people trying to pronounce the English word. I never thought of the chracaters 茄汁. Thanks for that. :-)

I always like the fact how "ketchup" comes from 茄汁 which in Cantonese is pronounced "Kei chup", literary means the juice of tomato.

Along with what goulniky is saying, I also think the list sort of cheats. Do words that describe Chinese cultural phenomena and Chinese food really count as English words of Chinese origin? I guess so, but there's (to me) a difference between saying "falafel" is an English word of Arabic origin and saying that "alcohol" is an English word of Arabic origin. The latter seems to actually be an English word, the former, just a straight borrow word.

that list is incredibly short, and mixes up Japanese, Southern dialects and so-called 'pidgin', depressingly little from Northern dialects

Online etymology dictionary...

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=long

... says "long time no see" comes from an imitation of American-Indian speech, but gives the earliest appearance around 1900--certainly late enough for the phrase to have come from Chinese instead.

I'd love to see more documentation either way.

here the important bit of the wiki artikel:

Chinese Pidgin English today is a common term for a variant of English spoken by Chinese immigrants or other persons whose mother language is Chinese and who learned English as a second language.[verification needed] It is often used as slang for Chinese people in the United States who speak with an accent.[verification needed]

The word "pidgin" itself is believed to have been a Chinese pronunciation of the English word business. There have been many forms of Pidgin English, often with common elements because of the wide range of contacts made by commercial shipping.

Certain expressions from Chinese English Pidgin have made their way into colloquial English. The following is a list of some of these expressions and the Chinese expressions they were literally derived from:

* long time no see

(好(very) 久(long time) 不(not) 見(see), meaning "haven't seen [you] in a long time")

* look-see

(看(look) 見(see), meaning "to see, to perceive")

* no can do

(不(no) 能(can) 做(do), meaning "to be unable to do")

* no-go

(不(no) 行(go), meaning "not OK" or "option not taken").

youtube works again.

Thanks Art,

I like that one as well.

Clay,

wikipedia supports us.

Interesting that it is blocked. Is youtube still blocked or was that temporary?

The verb "to kowtow" is from 广东话 if I'm not mistaken.

Clayroup, try anonymouse.org!

rjberki,

you are correct sir, or at least I think you are. From what I gather, English sailors picked up the phrase in HK and translated it verbatim.

I went to verify on wikipedia, but that is blocked here in China. this should show you the answer however (or google "long time no see china"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Pidgin_English

Let me know if we are correct in our assumptions,

clay

rjberki,

I wouldn't know how to come up with the correct translation for "The early worm gets killed."

However, there is a Chinese proverb called 螳螂扑蟬黃雀在后". Loosely-translated, the praying-mantis pounces on the cicada, while the yellow-canary waits behind. You'll have to ask Jenny or Connie to do a lesson on this proverb.

Art

I have actually read that that "long time no see" does in fact come from Chinese english pidgin developed in Canton due to the British presence. Artkho, what are the characters for the early bird gets killed? I like this one.

Art, I certainly sure can't tell you for sure. I had heard that it came from native American pidgin, but I can't recall the source. Chinese certainly sounds plausible.

I always think that the phrase "long time no see" must come from Chinese. It completely defies English grammar and seems to be oddly close to “好久不见" Not sure though...