User Comments - zhenlijiang

Posted on: Mother's Day

Baba, no I wouldn't think it's ever easy.

I think this sort of thing occurs in all societies,all cultures but I don't accept that this means it has to be an inherent part of that culture

We are not talking about "this sort of thing", we are talking about why a sentence like 宝宝不乖，妈妈不喜欢你了。is in the Expansion.

Of course I'm not saying we should feel hesitant to comment if something is a cultural difference. I said yesterday I wouldn't preach at Chinese parents if I heard them saying that. I was asking Bodawei what he would personally say, not for a general reply on the general approach. I wanted specific words. I asked in this "what-if" situation I gave (that an acquaintance of Bodawei said that sentence to a child in his presence. and Bodawei would protest if he heard that), what would he say. And I understand if he doesn't feel like replying. This discussion is getting really long and there aren't enough participants in it unfortunately.

I don't think any parent would deliberately hurt their kids. Well some do unfortunately but that's never been an issue here in this discussion, we're not talking about parents like that.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Thanks for your response Bodawei. You have me still unclear on this--you seem to take varying positions on the appropriateness of the sentence. I'm not going to list the different things you've said, it's all up there. Anyway in total they did confuse me.

I didn't ask how you would respond; I asked how do you make that point with your Chinese friend--or acquaintance even, doesn't have to be a friend--face to face? How do you begin. What do you say and how do you get her to hear you and accept your morals over the ones she's always taken for granted? Over the morals that came from her parents and grandparents and ayi's and shushu's?

This is not an assault. Maybe you see no validity in this question but I really want to know how this would be done person-to-person. It applies whenever there's anything "controversial" or "difficult because of culture differences" like this.

But I understand, if you don't feel like responding, esp in this thread.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Baba there's no need to apologize. Sorry for making you do that.

I don't have trouble seeing Connie's view for what it is. I don't know if anyone here does. And I'm repeating again, but she is not trying to produce proof of anything and neither am I.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Sorry Baba I edited the comment you Replied to after, I think, you Replied.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Baba, it effectively ends up being dismissive, when on a question like this Connie shares her view to the best of her knowledge from her experience (I realize she's not an "expert" in that she's not a social scientist who's done research on this--Connie correct me if I'm wrong here--but we're listening to her because she is a Chinese, raised and living in China), to then call it "anecdotal evidence", as if she ought to have come prepared with some hard data before she spoke. And of course that does not mean we must then treat her view as the final definitive answer on behalf of all of China.

I'm saying I don't think Connie when she came up to comment here today thought she was "offering anecdotal evidence". That's what I meant.

Just how many of us are going to have scientific evidence in a discussion like this? If you start making light of all views and opinions expressed without data you effectively dismiss most comments on these boards. And extinguish lively discussions, because no one wants to express their view only to have it be dismissed like that.

And again. The point. How did we get to talking about lack of data, from Dunderklumpen's question which to me involves no need for it?

Posted on: Mother's Day

Baba, of course I've said already I wish more Chinese voices were being heard here. We've only had Connie and we've failed to engage her in the discussion.

You say we have great respect for Connie and her opinion--her view is based, I repeat, on her lifetime experience growing up and living in China--and would give a lot of weight to it. Ok. I'm not getting that sense from Bodawei. Of course we don't expect her to represent the entire population of China, why would anyone suggest such a thing?

Anyway are we to expect people to have scientific evidence, data, every time they share their view with us? Rather than share what they know from experience? Then I should never share my view should I, I never have any data. But what good would that do these discussions?

Connie is not trying to prove anything. I am not trying to prove that the majority of Chinese parents say that sentence to their kids at one point. Bodawei seems to me to be trying to deny something that no one is trying to prove. So just what is the point here?

Sorry but you guys are losing me on this. I think we're slipping further and further away from the point!

Posted on: Mother's Day

Mmm Bodawei I wanted to know how, not if. I assumed you would protest. How would you make that point with a Chinese friend, face to face, I wanted to know.

I appreciate the effort you made to humor me though, thanks.

I'm not interested here, like I said, in the state of child abuse in China or elsewhere, not commenting on how common it is (not that I could even if I had wanted to).

I have not agreed that with this sentence here we are talking about child abuse. It is your view that this Expansion sentence constitutes child abuse and that it does not reflect Chinese culture. I've obviously failed to get you to see things from my point of view, but you've also failed to convince me how it (the sentence, not child abuse) is not a reflection of Chinese culture (my question--I never pose rhetorical questions, not that you should know that, I only ask questions I expect answers to--was never addressed).

And if Connie's comment is "anecdotal evidence" I obviously don't understand what anecdotal evidence is. Is she not speaking from her whole life's experience growing up and living as a Chinese in China? If you have never heard a word being used a certain way ever in all your time in China but someone asks Connie and she says "we say that all the time" do you question that? Do you say "we can't be sure how common it really is, it's terribly difficult to say, Connie's anecdotal evidence notwithstanding"?

Posted on: Mother's Day

Bodawei let me put my question this way:

Say you're eating out with a Chinese mother, someone whom you got to know through work maybe, someone with whom you have a friendly, mutually respecting relationship. She's probably (excuse me) quite some years younger than you and she has her toddler with her (her first child). And she had just said this 宝宝不乖，妈妈不喜欢你了 to the toddler, maybe with a mock frown. What would you say to her?

Obviously this mother doesn't in the slightest bit think she may be doing anything harmful or bad to her child. How, in the situation I just gave--not on an online discussion among many English-speaking westerners--do you personally raise that concern of yours, face to face with your Chinese friend? I'd appreciate it if you could take the trouble to share with us.

Connie's is the only Chinese voice we've heard so far; I realize it's difficult but wish there could be more in this discussion.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Bodawei, actually your comments have been surprisingly difficult for me to follow. The difficulty I'm having is understanding what you want here. I think it's several things, but can't tell in which order they are most important to you. I'm going to go away for a bit to try to sort out what my problem is, and hopefully I can come back and articulate it better.

Now here--

I'm sure that you don't want all of the language used in China appearing in ChinesePod,, without exception. What about a discussion between a Chinese man and the manager of a child providing sexual services? This is another form of child abuse, relatively common, particularly in some parts of China. It's relative frequency does not make it okay.

our arguments are getting extreme aren't they? I'm sure you could have made your point without going there.

Posted on: Mother's Day

I'm not sure which statement you strongly disagreed with--the sentence of mine you picked up and quoted I think you may still be misinterpreting?

The point is I have no trouble understanding (as I've already said, I personally would never say something like that to a child of mine or to any child for that matter) that parents need to make sure their children understand the love is unconditional and will never be withheld.

it is how the listener interprets and reacts to a statement that is important, NOT what the speaker may have intended by it.

I can't agree more. I've said the same thing myself so many times sydcarten, so many times here on these boards.

I've read your last comment and appreciate your sharing such personal things, things that are probably not easy to talk about, with us. I really hope you don't imagine you and I are in some sort of argument, because I see nothing you've said that I'm disagreeing with. So I wish you didn't think you were strongly disagreeing with me.