User Comments - tingyun

Posted on: Where's the soap?

Definitely wouldn't see 一下 in formal writing. But there are other ways of softening tone of suggestions that are analogous - statements like 不妨 'it wouldn't hurt to', or maybe 且, in a meaning of 'temporarily', attached to some verbs (且慢 'temporarily slow down' 且看 sometimes has this meaning (though it doesn't always soften the tone in my opinion), though it could also be used with 且 meaning 'furthermore' and thus have a different meaning...)

Posted on: 长征

Hi Bodawei,

My first guess was 言近意远 - which was lucky in that it is a chengyu derived from a song dynasty rephrasing of the quote you mentioned, so it led me to it. 《孟子·尽心下》：“言近而指远者，善言也。”, though 指 is interpreted as and replaced by 旨 to form the standard version of the modern Chengyu 言近旨远

Anyway, I think a better English translation would be 'accessible (simple) language, deep meaning'. Though of course if you wanted to translate Mengzi's quote, rather than just the chengyu that emerged from it, it would be something like 'Those who use accessible (simple) language to convey deep meaning, are good at speaking.' If you'd like to get a feel for how to read it yourself, in “言近而指远者，善言也。” the pattern is one of 'to be' (like the modern A 是 B sentence pattern means 'A is B') - here we have the pattern A者,B也 which means 'A is B', 言 is a verb meaning 'to speak', 指 is 旨 which has the meaning 意 , and the rest is as you would except from modern Chinese.

Posted on: 长征

Hi Bodawei,

I imagine it would indirectly prove helpful (and certainly fun) - but if newspapers are your goal, it would probably be more direct and quick to just study modern formal written language - 书面语. While it has its roots in 文言, modern 书面语 only imported a small portion of 文言, so most of what you learn from 文言 will not apply (probably the only benefit is you'll learn some new characters, and get a clearer understanding of some others).

The modern language classes here at Harvard have their own texts created by the staff, and the level 4 texts focus exclusively on teaching modern 书面语. Here's a link a place where you can order the level 4, 1st semester text - http://chinasprout.com/shop/BLO092 . Its called "Comprehensive Chinese: Advanced Reading I"

It doesn't have the charm of Cpod, but its probably the best source for learning modern written Chinese. They select great articles, and do a great job on grammar explanations. Work through the series and newspapers will be no problem. They specifically focus on giving you exposure to all styles - from the almost narrative kind of reporting present in some news stories, to the 'popular economics' kind of argument, to the more editorial argument kind...

Or just go the 文言 route - I think reading Mengzi is more fun than a newspaper. ;)

Posted on: 长征

I don't think a 文言 section would be a good idea - its terribly unsuited for audio learning.  I'd strongly recomend Paul Rouzer's book: it's used at Harvard by the 1st year students, and is a great introduction. It's called "A New Practical Primer of Literary Chinese."  Here is the amazon link http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Literary-Chinese-Harvard-Monographs/dp/067402270X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294455443&sr=8-1

Cpod has an amazingly talented staff, but teaching 文言 is really a matter best left for carefully researched books written by experts.  Trying to do it through Cpod would be 圆凿方枘 (Round hole, square peg).

班廷筠

Posted on: Back in the Day with "当"

I remember one thing that confused me a while back was hearing words like 当时，当年，当天，当日, 当晚 with 当 pronounced in the 4th tone... I later discovered that each actually has two seperate meanings depending on the tone.

The QW did a great job of explaining the 当 first tone use - when it is used in a sort of narrative 'back then, at that time' sense.  The 当 fourth tone use is when two events are coupled in the sentence, and stated concretely as happening at the same time.  The QW provided plenty of examples of the first tone uses - in case anyone would like to reference the other meaning/use, I'll cut and paste a few examples from nciku of when 当 is fourth tone in these time words.

听到噩耗，他当时就昏了过去

当年借当年还

他回来的当天正赶上宣传队来演出

我今天动身，当晚赶不回来

Posted on: First Snow of the Winter

血 is xie3 when used as a single word, to just mean blood, or in colloquial pronunciations of words like 流血. 血 is xue4 in formal expressions, or really anything not overly colloquial - ie 高血压 high blood pressure would be xue4, as would chengyu like 心血来潮, or formal words like 血汗.

But many native speakers (in particular everyone I've met from Beijing more or less) merges the two pronunciations into a technically incorrect hybrid xue3, borrowing tone form one and sound from the other, and uses it in all cases. I'd avoid it myself, but really no harm if you want to follow that simplification.

Incidentally, 血 is part of a larger family of characters that have a colloquial pronunciation for use as single term or highly colloquial words and formal pronunciation for other cases (though in these cases you can't hubridize them) - one example would be 薄 bao2 informal, bo2 formal.

熟 shou2 informal, shu2 formal is a bit different, in that the distinction is completely on the formality and not on role in combination words - and you are better off just using shu2 always.

剥bao1 informal, bo1 formal 削 xiao1 informal, xue1 formal Are similar, though there the stress is really on whether it is being used alone or in a combined word (I just continued using formal and informal for convenience, the terms are perhaps not completely applicable).

着zhao2 informal, zhuo2 formal - actually zhao2 is 100 percent correct in many uses (ie 着火), but in informal speech many natives use the zhao2 pronounciation when zhuo2 is formally correct (ie 着想，着落)

Posted on: First Snow of the Winter

Hi cinnamonfern,

The last three are all a somewhat colloquial way of saying you went through or did some process - note 一场大病 a period of big sickness, vs 大病了一场 was very sick for a period (大病 changes from noun to verb, I think, or maybe its just that the verb is omitted, grammar is pretty flexible and vague in Chinese anyway). the others are: 大干了一场 did alot for a period, was very busy for a period, 白白高兴了一场 was uselessly happy for a period (I think implying that whatever made one happy turned out to be false or fell through in some manner).

Yep, but 次 can definitely be used (it is a broader measure word), but I think there is some difference in tone between the two...perhaps someone who understands it better will help us on this.

班廷筠

Posted on: First Snow of the Winter

场 in the 3rd tone is a measure word only for performances - 场 in the 2nd tone is a measure word with broader use, somewhat like 阵, used for a process, examples would be 一场战争，一场比赛，一场大雨, 大病了一场， 白白高兴了一场，大干了一场. However, it would not be used in the example you gave, as it is not generally a replacement for 次. If 次 was substituted in for 场 in the above examples, I think generally there would be nothing ungrammatical, but it would change the feeling of them slightly, though I have trouble articulating in what specific way. Maybe it suggests in tone there being one occurrence, or focuses attention on the possibility of there being multiple, while 场 keeps attention on that specific incident? Also, I think 场 would tend to be used for graver 病 than 次...but I'm really not 100 percent sure on these issues.

Posted on: Which is better: China or the USA?

Hi bodawei,

Yah, I think it has three advantages over other dictionaries: 1- very fast load times, 2 - inclusion of slang terms, proper names, 3 - well, for example, 空穴来风's entry explains how the original meaning (rumor has basis) was corrupted into the opposite common misuse (rumor has no basis), and the differing levels of acceptance for this. Or 固步自封's entry takes care to explain that it is a corruption of 故步自封, started when Mao Zedong wrote the Chengyu incorrectly and everyone was afraid to correct him or depart from his error...generally it includes both erroneous words and incorrect uses, and an explanation of their origins, which normal dictionaries don't have.

Still, I've noticed occasional mistakes, and the quality varies by entry. But definitely on the list of useful dictionaries, especially when the other dictionary websites are slow, or when you want a full discussion of these sort of issues.

Posted on: Which is better: China or the USA?

Hi Bodawei,

Well, Rome had an African-Roman emperor long before Obama, so that's pretty diverse, right? ;) Emperors started coming from every part of the empire later...Earlier, the Republic's extension of citizenship to all of Italy was pretty impressive diversity - these things should really be judged on a scale appropriate to their time. For instance, in looking at Chinese history of the spring/autumn and warring states period, its interesting that people from 楚 (which I think includes present day Shanghai) were considered strange foreigner types...so much so that their names and titles were given in reverse order in many older works, to really emphasize how different they were from the civilized Central Plains people.