User Comments - tingyun

Posted on: Eating in Korea

I'm not sure that makes them so similar, a tone difference is a big difference (and they may have been different in sound in the period we are talking about, in addition to the normal process of sounds drifiting, a few thousand years ago and it might have been before tones replaced certain sound differences).

Hmm, seven heroes isn't how I would translate 七雄, seven strong countries is more descriptive if lacking in poetry, is heroes an official translation of sorts? Oh well, it also bugsme how they insist on translating 王 as prince in later eras....

So given the timeframe i guess the question bouls down to whether 刘邦 liu bang the founder of the han dynasty, getting his original title of 汉王 back when cooperating with 项羽 xiang yu and before winning the entire country, had anything to do with the old 韩国? I dont think so, 韩国 would be out by modern 山西 shanxi province, while i dont know the origin of liu bang's title, i would guess it was from becoming 汉中王 after seizing 咸阳 xianyang, 秦国's old capital, which would be in present day 陕西 shanxi (the other shanxi, i think sometimes spelled shaanxi), and thus perhaps had something to do with the 汉江 river that starts there? Not sure if thats all correct, but at any rate i dont see how it could have any connection to 韩.

Definitelly no connection to korea, i dont think korea started to use 韩 charecter until much more modern times...

As for the seond part of your question, a way oversimpilified but also largely accurate description of common attitudes among chinese might be, korea historically copies/follows china, japan copies/oppresses china. ;). (remember, the korean court for most of the last 1000 years recognized the authority of the chinese dynasty)

Posted on: Sensitive Topics

I know little on the subject, but I ran a search for you, and I'll annotate the entries below in english (just for your ease of scanning the various parts, I figure given the detail of your question you won't have a problem with the chinese, so I wont generally translate)

The only thing I'll add is 殒 yun3 is closely related and often used interchangeably with 陨 yun3, which means fall from the sky, like a meteor and such. I think it retains alot of the flavor of this...my strongest association of it is with 香消玉殒, and expression used for beautiful women dying (notice the symbolism and borrowing of meaning from the related character, 'fragrance dissipating and jade falling'). Oh, and although 殂 is a general term for death, its presence in Zhuge Liang's famous 出师表 in the compound 崩殂 which is used for rulers dying, and there refers to liu bei, ends up causing me to have a strong association to that...I think chinese kids still all memorize that work? At any rate, not in modern use as far as I know...

Oh, and the below speculates on the origin of the variety of terms, seems reasonably written, I'm afraid I dont have any expertise to add to the discussion

list of some death words by catagory

commonly seen 常见：去世、过世、逝世、长眠、安息。

accidents 意外：遇难、丧身。

death before adulthood 末成年而死：夭折。

death for ones country and people为国为民：牺牲、捐躯、殉国、殉职。

death of monks 和尚死：圆寂、坐化、示寂、示灭、升天。

death of rulers 古帝王死：驾崩、太薨、山陵、大行、登遐。

death at old age高龄而死：登仙。

death of your enemy (so, disrespectful) 对仇敌：见阎王、回老家、归西天、断气、完蛋、命呜呼。

others 另外：卒、殁、疾终、溘逝、作古、弃世、下世。

others again 又：物故、厌世、弃养、捐舍馆、弃堂帐、启手足、隐化、迁神、作军驾、遁化

death words organized by number of charecters

单字：

殒 殇 殁 殂 殪 陨 卒 崩 薨 夭 亡 故 澌 逝 没

双字：

陨落 陨队 陨命 踣 陨首 殒越 殒命 殒亡 殒灭 殒世 殒坠 灰殒 星殒 星坠 殉难 殉国 殉身 殉职 殉义 殉道 殉亡 归天 归西 归山 归泉 归室 天遏 天札 天誓 天夭 长逝 长眠 长往 长辞 长去 大行 大去 大薨 大限 气绝 气尽 气散 丧元 丧终 丧乱 丧命 丧亡 丧生 夭逝 夭折 夭亡 夭昏 阵亡 身亡 病亡 暴亡 骤亡 客亡 没世 就世 下世 顺世 谢世 过世 逝世 弃世 压世 长逝 溘逝 夭逝 病逝 羽化 迁化 遁化 隐化 恒化 老了 走了 去了 丢了 终了 已故 亡故 病故 物故 亡命 毙命 断命 没命 绝命 非命 捐命 遇难 罹难 蒙难 落难 断气 绝气 没气 咽气 就义 赴义 客义 捐身 献身 捐躯 捐馆 示灭 示寂 不讳 不禄 作古 千古 国殇 长眠 百年 上仙 下殇 灭度 升天 奠楹 圆寂 凤殒 故去 物化 驾崩 奄隔 牺牲 永别 安息 寿终 疾终 登仙 升仙 强死 数尽 就木 返真 宛其 短折 梦桑 倚槐 丘首 徒豆 湟盘 成佛 登遐 弃养 解驾 迁形 迁神 完蛋 成仁 自尽 杀身 自绝 屈亡 早逝 无常 仙逝

三字：

牺牲了 不行了 离开了 过去了 过世了 走远了 长眠了 回去了 升天了 呜呼了 光荣了 回老家 翅辫子 捐舍馆 弃堂帐 山陵崩 启手足 见阎王 壮烈了 少活了

四字：

做老人了 做古人了 回老家了 上西天了 归西天了 辞人生了 百年之后 见马克思 见上帝了 辞去人世 辞别人生 与世长辞 与世长别 与世告别 告别人生 寿终正寝 寿终内寝 成为物教 溘然长逝 无服之殇 呜呼哀哉 一命呜呼 杀身成仁 太阳落山

some more terms for death with annotations of famous uses, and some speculation on the origin of this variety of terms (status of high rulers, avoiding directly saying death, etc)

生老病死，人之常情。但人们对“死”，自古至今都讳莫如深，为避讳起见，取了诸多别称。

古代对人死的称呼反映了奴隶社会和封建社会里严格的等级制度，《礼记·曲礼》：“天子死曰崩，诸侯死曰薨，大夫死曰卒，士曰不禄，庶人曰死。”如：

① 先帝知臣谨慎，故临崩寄臣以大事也。（《出师表》）

② 先帝创业未半，而中道崩殂。（《出师表》）

句中的“崩”、“崩殂”即指皇帝死亡。

③ 昭王薨，安僖王即位，封公子为信陵君。（《信陵君窃符救赵》）

句中的“薨”则指诸侯或有封爵的大臣之死。

④ 初，鲁肃闻刘表卒。（〈赤壁之战〉）

⑤ 年六十二，永和四年卒。（《张衡传》）

句中的“卒”古指大夫死亡或年老寿终。

现代人不像古代那样等级森严，但表现在对“死”的称谓上，也有明显的褒贬色彩。

“牺牲”，指为正义事业而舍弃生命。如：

⑥ 三年以来，在人民解放战争和人民革命中牺牲的人民英雄永垂不朽！（《人民英雄永垂不朽》）

“就义”，指为正义事业而被杀害。如：

⑦ 他从报上知道，这个写信的人几个月之前，已经在南昌英勇就义。（《同志的信任》）

“殉道”，指为正义而牺牲生命。与此类似的还有“殉国”、“殉职”、“殉难”、“殉情”等。如：

⑧ 人民永远怀念着科学的英雄的殉道者。（《火刑》）

⑨ （白求恩）去年春上到延安，后来到五台山工作，不幸以身殉职。（《纪念白求恩》）

以上用词多用来表示对死者的褒扬。

Some humorous/light tone terms for death

而“一命呜呼”、“呜呼哀哉”、“吹灯拔蜡”、“回老家”、“玩儿完”等多含有贬义或讽刺意味。

And some more discussion of the division of terms for death

在语体色彩方面，“逝世”专指长辈或可敬的人死去，带有庄重色彩，多用于书面；而“去世”使用范围较宽，指长辈或同辈的成年人死去，口语、书面都用。

另外，“寿终正寝”指年老病死在家中，“遇难”指因迫害或发生意外而死亡，“瘐毙”指关在牢狱里的人因受刑或饥寒、疾病而死，“夭折”则指未成年而死。

其他对“死”的婉称有：百年之后、仙逝、仙游、升天、上天、归天、归西、归阴、老了、过去了、故去、过世、走、去等等。

而在佛教用语中，对僧尼之死又有别称，如“圆寂”、“涅盘”、“坐化”等。

Posted on: A Disgusting Woman

Is tht really any worse than western conceptions of beauty? Perhaps there's more variety, but the west has its love of anorexic models and exagerated body parts. As for the preference for white skin, thats more of a developing country sort of thing, and the whole being tan means working in fields means lower economic class holdover logic thst takes generations to fade out (India has the same preference for light colored non-tanned skin).

I honestly think its refreshing that there is some focus on the face, eyes etc, when compared to Western obsession with the size of certain body parts. Though of course the cross-cultural, universal to humanity measure of attractivness applies just as well in china and the West, low waist to hip ratio...And the eye preferences and the like are tied to correlations with youth, so its really all an unconcious fertility measuring game.

Actually, I rather think any conception of beauty that isn't the same between males and females is inherently sexist, but that's probably a good thing. ;)

Posted on: Addressing Women

I think the large majority of 4 charecter expressions are read with something of a 2-2 organization, regardless of how the meaning of it should be logically understood. Though there isnt much of pause in the middle, the space between the 2nd and 3rd charecters is a bit longer. 学无止境 is that way too, at least everytime ive heard it. Its just a rythym thing.

Most 7 charecter expressions are read 4-3, though thats probably partly from the influence of poetry, where things are 2 small pause 2 big pause 3 (or 2-1 or 1-2). Though there it can be 3-4 if the meaning demands, it seems less rigid.

Posted on: Sensitive Topics

Yep, and 任 has both pronounciations too, which can be confusing (2nd tone when a last name or some old meanings like a title of noblity, 4th tone otherwise).

A charecter from one of my favorite books is named 任我行, which is a great name (if read as a statement it is something like 'I'll do whatever I want', though that would be eith 任 in the 4th tone, whereas it is a last name in the 2nd tone).

Posted on: Addressing Women

Interesting, now i've learned a new english expression!

Though sadly this is just one of many 'nods' for me here at the cpod message boards - for example, the last post in this lesson

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/网络游戏

is a Chinese person politely pointing out that, while I was trying to correct the cpod use of 昨日黄花 (correct form is 明日黄花), i miswrote the source of the chengyu. Oddly enough, I also mentioned 电光石火 in that post...the only two times I have probably had occasion to mention that chengyu anywhere both ended badly, perhaps its is my 克星 ;)

Posted on: Addressing Women

Ah, my mistake, absolutely right. I really should have checked first...the occasional emberassment is a good means of reminding one to be more cautious. ;)

Posted on: Addressing Women

Do you mean 入乡随俗? One thing thats helpful is to analyze the meaning of chengyu component parts, rather than just trying to memorize the end meaning, that way you are much more likely to remember the exact wording. Here, we have "入 upon entering 乡 an area 随 follow 俗 its customs".

This kind of mixup happens to native speakers too, for example the chengyu 电光石火, a while back some people got mixed up and reversed the order of the last two charecters, saying instead 电光火石, and then more people started following this mistake, and now that mixed up mistaken chengyu is more common than the original version. Actually, ive had people say they think the correct version sounds weird (though its actually the only one that really makes sense when you analyze it, the 1 and 3 charecters geing nouns and the 2 and 4 charecters being what is emitted from them)

Posted on: Sensitive Topics

I think the tones on that should be ban1 and zhu3ren4. :)

Posted on: Addressing Women

姑娘 is an older term, so its a little out of place, which is why one friend said using it was fun, and another told you not to use it ;)

It is used for unmarried girls.