User Comments - bodawei

Posted on: Mother's Day

Hi Zhenlijiang

I don't want to prolong this or to slog it out with you, or to repeat too much of what has already been stated, but you deserve a response. Like Barbs I too respect what you have to say. I would summarize the important points you have made as: 1. that you want culture relevant language, 2. that the sentence doesn't strike you as abusive, 3. that Connie's view confirms your view.

I don't want to re-state my views, it's all been said above. But you seem concerned that I don't take Connie's word on this. I have great respect for Connie as a teacher, but her personal views on this don't change my views. I keep my own ear to the ground on all sorts of things and I often trust my own observations over views expressed by Chinese people. If I hear something interesting I at least like to interrogate them, but I always rely more on what people do than what they say. (None of this is meant to be disrespectful to Connie - I hope that she observes Westerners the same way.) I have already acknowledged that the behaviour is likely to occur, and worse; that is a sad fact of life. I am not persuaded by an explanation that it is okay because it is said 'jokingly' - it is an adult joke; it's not funny at all for the child. Why is it important to know how I would respond? Do I lack a sense of humour? On this subject, probably. Hope this helps. :)

Posted on: Mother's Day

I'll do my best - I'll answer your question this way Zhenlijiang. I have frequent contact with a couple of families with small children and occasional contact with others. They come from various walks of life (China is a class society.) I have never heard parents express anything remotely like this. And knowing the parents and extended family I cannot imagine any of them expressing such a thing. If I did hear something like this I would protest, no question. What can we conclude from this? I have already acknowledged that such behaviour no doubt happens in China, but how common is a moot point. It is terribly difficult to say (Connie's anecdotal evidence, or anyone else's anecdotal evidence notwithstanding.) It is difficult to say in the West where we have fairly well developed data sets on reports of child abuse.

Posted on: Mother's Day

I got a similar story from my mother - she used to wonder if she got the wrong baby at the hospital, because I am so much better behaved than my siblings. No-one is going to believe that. And my mother is the only evidence I have. Sigh.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Hi Zhenlijiang

Now on your first response (it gets confusing with these threads), I agree with Sydcarten on this one. In my opinion it is not just enough to provide the sentence without context, ask a question (as Dunderklumpen did) and wait for Connie's response. Not enough in my view, and we are all entitled to express a view I hope.

The thing is Zhenlijiang, you cannot possibly pick up the context you need from the sentence in the exercises. And I'm sure that you don't want all of the language used in China appearing in ChinesePod,, without exception. What about a discussion between a Chinese man and the manager of a child providing sexual services? This is another form of child abuse, relatively common, particularly in some parts of China. It's relative frequency does not make it okay. That would have many people unhappy I think. The language needs cultural context, particularly on something as controversial as this.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Hi Zhenlijiang

My opening sentence is quite strong as you say, but it is true. Context is important - if the sentence had made it quite clear that the comment was made in jest - and provided other information about the culture, evidence if you like that this is not abuse - then that would be different. In the absence of this context the sentence describes a situation that is abusive. This occurs in any culture, including China. In Western countries this would constitute psychological abuse. In some countries there is a legal process to be followed when such abuse is identified. I haven't amended my view - in China it would constitute psychological abuse in principal - I am unsure of the legalities here though. Hope this clarifies my comments?

Posted on: Mother's Day

And they used to cane students in school too - remember? The community values around acceptable behaviour in relation to children has changed over time.

Posted on: Mother's Day

Thanks Zhenlijiang for you kind comments and I appreciate your honesty.

But I am actually not denying that these comments are commonly expressed in China (see my separate comment to Connie.) And I repeat: 'I am not actually advocating censorship'. As I said to Connie I am offering advice.

The kind of 'commentary' I would suggest for this sentence is that it is commonly expressed in China in a joking way, and that it does not reflect real intentions of mothers not to love their children.

Ha ha, yes I am sometimes accused of wearing rose-coloured glasses. But I see all kinds of things in China that make me feel uncomfortable or even outraged. I know from observation that what we in the West call child abuse exists in China. But I do not think that child abuse is the same in China and the West by any stretch of the imagination. It is different (I think - I have made no special study of this) in both kind and quantity.

Posted on: Mother's Day

We are showing our age here Changye, the world is changing in this respect. Yes these comments were common when we were young. :）

Posted on: Mother's Day

Hi Connie

I will reply to you first. (I seem to have provoked a few responses.) Let me just say that you hear this sentence in Chinese, you do not hear it in English. It is no doubt considered a joke in China (the Chinese expression does not surprise me at all), but in English-speaking countries this sentence expresses a form of child abuse. (I want to assure you that I am not making idle comments here - I have worked in this area professionally for some ten years or so, and have in the past couple of years worked on a project reviewing standards relating to the treatment of children. In this work I was able to review current attitudes and Government policy in Europe and America as well as Australia and New Zealand.) This is a difficult topic because of culture differences. I stand by my original comment, but I am not attacking ChinesePod over this; I think the learning material here is of a consistently high standard and that the material is prepared with the best of intentions from an educational point of view. I mean to convey some friendly advice.

[Apologies that my Chinese is not up to expressing the above in your native language. Must keep working at it.]

Posted on: Mother's Day

This sentence is child abuse in any language, Or culture. The mother's unconditional love for her children is human and little to do with culture. This is particularly unsuitable for a lesson titled 'Mother's Day'.

I suspect the author of the sentence (or at least the English translation) has no experience with or raising children, so we could conclude that it is something of an innocent mistake. Or maybe a rather black sense of humour? Nevertheless it is a nasty sentiment to portray in sample sentences for learners, whatever the motivation.

This is a case of where 'art' and real life meet - I am not actually advocating censorship. But I think if ChinesePod is going to use edgy sentences like this it should note (to avoid confusion) that this is not a reflection of Chinese culture.