Are Chinese sheep really ghosts?
Tal
March 13, 2010 at 01:39 AM posted in General Discussion
Recently I've been reading an interesting Chinese folk tale: 宋定伯卖鬼 - Sòng Dìng Bó mài guǐ - Sòng Dìng Bó sells a ghost.
It's a funny little story actually, good practice for Chinese study, and there are some quirky (to a western mind anyway) features which perhaps tell us some things about China and the Chinese world view.
At the beginning we hear:
鬼常常害人 - guǐ cháng cháng hài rén - (ghosts often cause trouble to people) and
老百姓都怕鬼 - lǎobǎixìng dōu pà guǐ - (common folk fear ghosts.)
And then interestingly we then learn that 鬼怕恶人 - guǐ pà èrén - ghosts fear a villain! If you're bold and 厉害, the ghosts won't dare make trouble for you!
The hero of the story, the redoubtable 宋定伯, a guy with a love of learning and the martial arts, goes to visit a friend who lives outside his city wall. He enjoys himself and stays late. The friend advises him to stay over, because the road home has a reputation for being haunted by ghosts, but of course 宋定伯 will have none of this, and starts for home in the dark night.
Of course it's not long before our hero does encounter a ghost, but not a clever one, because he thinks 宋定伯 might be a ghost. 宋定伯 has fun pretending to be a ghost, and even learns what ghosts are most afraid of: having people spit in their faces! Now you know why Chinese people love doing that so much!
Finally, with dawn breaking, the ghost is keen to be off, (seems like Chinese ghosts, just like their western cousins, prefer the dark night to the light of day.) But 宋定伯 holds on to it and won't let it go, and then... *roll of drums*... the ghost turns into... a sheep!!
宋定伯 is no fool, he knows it might turn back into a ghost, so he spits in its face and takes it to market and sells it.
Now children, what do we learn from this story?
RJ
March 13, 2010 at 01:29 PM
I have to say, I am really enjoying listening to this conversation. Grown men discussing a cartoon. Great story Tal, thank you. Does the sheep turn back into a ghost when it gets dark again? That is the burning question. As for horny sheep, well I guess we all have our problems. :-)
RJ
March 15, 2010 at 05:06 PM
yea well, whatever it was seems to have had a sex change. I do like the female better but your scaring me now. A little R&R perhaps?
bababardwan
March 15, 2010 at 01:50 PM
Yeah,it was just temp RJ. You're right,I need to get with the times. It is the year of the tiger after all. Hey presto,虎年快乐
Tal,
It was the Year of the Horse Manimal by Daniel Lee. Here are the others:
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/manimal7.jpg&imgrefurl=http://inventorspot.com/node/13736&usg=__1MWYrJQFwCuk8dBuREbzTHvRP6A=&h=450&w=335&sz=82&hl=en&start=5&sig2=unN76O5uTYNfwPk_4J93-w&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=EvczSDokc-1pdM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmanimals%252Btiger%252Blee%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=UDeeS8qTAdGTkAW9hZDIAg
...whoah,that's quite a url length.Just as well for copy and paste.
RJ
March 14, 2010 at 02:10 PM
Sorry Tal, I forget where you are and how little you "get out" 哈哈。 Ambien is in the news from time to time as some politician is caught "sleep driving" or something. Evidently the drug has this weird side effect where some people (especially if taken with alcohol) will sleep walk, eat, drive, and one guy even had a sleep affair and didnt remember it until the gal called him wanting to know when he was coming back.
bababardwan
March 14, 2010 at 07:47 AM
your a champ mate,only you would see it another way and it still fits.
Tal
March 14, 2010 at 07:24 AM
呵呵,I had no idea, thought you must mean ambient music. Well... I learned something!
RJ
March 14, 2010 at 04:55 AM
actually Tal, "ambien" is a popular prescription sleeping pill here in the US.
Tal
March 14, 2010 at 03:33 AM
呵呵,what is that new avatar anyway baba, I'm sure I should know but just can't place it. You change it so often these days! Seems constant change is your motif.
'Ambien' RJ, you mean like the music? Yep, it's good!
bababardwan
March 14, 2010 at 01:55 AM
Well Mick Dundee showed how we Aussies put the bulls to sleep [as shown in this vid at 36s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WGqaN12JuM ...sorry can only find this stuff on youtube] so maybe the connection works both ways. 我看你。
bababardwan
March 14, 2010 at 01:48 AM
hehe,
I was pretty sure that's the reaction I'd get and you're just the one to tell me so.It just feels so fitting in this discussion though mate.I wanna feel part of it,blend in,be one with it.Would you prefer the sheep man I posted a link to above?...I don't wanna put folk to sleep any more than I'm already apt to though as I want the boards to be alive....can't have anyone bored with the boards.
RJ
March 14, 2010 at 01:30 AM
Changye- money! I should have known.
Baba- please tell me that avatar is a temp.
Tal - cows eh, personally I find that ambien works best. It does lead to sleep walking however.
Tal
March 14, 2010 at 01:09 AM
Hey RJ, good to see you mate, cheers! In the classroom I sometimes make students chant: 'Mrs. Brown counted cows coming down the mountain', (to practice the 'ow' sound!), and then I'll tell them 'if you can't fall asleep at night, you can count cows like Mrs. Brown, and then you'll fall asleep'.
'Shouldn't it be sheep?' someone will ask, and I'll say:
'Well, it works with sheep too, but if you count cows, you fall asleep more quickly.'
This usually mightily puzzles them, (my surreal and silly sense of humour generally not striking a chord!)
'Why?' someone will say.
'I'm not sure,' I'll reply, with my best attempt at looking puzzled, 'it just does. Try it!'
bababardwan
March 14, 2010 at 12:36 AM
或者,也许他们可以数人【没有短缺】:
http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/Manimal.jpg
RJ
March 13, 2010 at 03:11 PM
have you tried counting goats? I wonder, is the counting sheep thing understood in china? What do the Chinese count?
changye
March 13, 2010 at 02:27 PM
Hi rjberki
I can't sleep well due to the "sheep/goat" problem, so I have to count sheep again tonight.
bodawei
March 13, 2010 at 02:48 PM
我觉得对说法你对的,就语法书而论我都不过你,可是对生物学我不一定。 :-) 其实对生物学我也都不过你!
..while originally all rams had horns, sheep can have horns or not, depending upon their breed, sex, and genetics (www.sheep101.info).
changye
March 13, 2010 at 11:41 AM
Hi bodawei
我听说,野生品种一般都有角,但是有些改良品种没有角。这个说法对吗?我对生物学不太熟悉。对了,顺便说下,你可以说“母/雌羊”和“公/雄羊”,但是不能说“女羊/男羊”。我家的小胖狗是母狗。
Hi bababardwan
我打错字了!其实,“羊年喜洋洋”就是2003年(羊年)的时候我常听的一个祝福语。
changye
March 13, 2010 at 09:06 AM
从“毛”来看,喜洋洋好像是一只绵羊,不过问题是他有一对角!头上长角的绵羊你看过没有?真是纳闷儿!喜洋洋很可能是一只“二不像”,哈哈。
Tal
March 13, 2010 at 02:54 AM
呵呵,谢谢 bodawei! You have a good point there about the sheep-goat confusion. I think Chinese people don't clearly distinguish between the 2 in the same way westerners do.
After all 'goat' in Chinese is just 山羊 (shānyáng) - mountain sheep!
Recently I see the character below everywhere

Looks like a sheep? No, it's the latest thing: Pleasant Goat and the Big Bad Wolf.
@changye - OK, my friend, promise I won't censure you for it again! Clearly my not doing it is why I am ghost-plagued!
@baba - Cheers mate, but really it was a serious question!
I'm hoping our Chinese friends and teachers will fill us in on this sheep/ghost question!
kongqian
March 14, 2010 at 01:22 PM
你好,很高兴我能到在此留言,我是中国刚毕业的毕业学生!英文不怎么好的!今天很无意间过来,希望我们能成为朋友,互相交流。如果想了解中文或者中国可以和我联系的。我的邮箱:kongqiancj@sina.com.cn
bodawei
March 13, 2010 at 04:58 AM
呵呵,鬼肉!!
I have a few theories:
1. The 老板 keeps the meat for friends and family; don't waste it on customers who are happy to pay 30 RMB for a dish of liver and lumps of fat.
2. There are other dishes available at the restaurant but our host does not like 羊肉.
3. 老板 sells the meat to local Muslim restaurants. Most little Muslim restaurants seem to just use the meat and not the offal - maybe it is a SYMBIOTIC relationship.
Tal
March 13, 2010 at 03:51 AM
But this wolf is like this:
"...always plotting to catch goats. But failed all times."
Like I said mate, story of my life! 呵呵!
我一定会回来的,可恶的小羊!
Sounds delish bodawei, so what did they do with the meat? or maybe it was ghost meat, 呵呵,鬼肉!
bababardwan
March 13, 2010 at 03:44 AM
Now come on mate,that would make you the Big Mal Wolf and I'll have none o' tha'
bodawei
March 13, 2010 at 03:41 AM
Sheep-goat confusion Episode #1
One day our friends ask us if we'd like to go to a restaurant where they eat 羊肉 (lamb.) Yum, yes please. We hop in the car and on the way the conversation kind of takes a twist. Our host starts referring to it as 山羊 (shānyáng.) Oh, I think, a goat restaurant - still sounds interesting. Visions of delicious goat and potato stew. On arrival we see that it one of those without a menu - the goods are displayed in boxes, cases, shelves etc. I can't see anything that looks distinctly like goat meat, but there is an awful lot of offal. Our hosts of course do the ordering and presently our main dish arrives - offal, big lumps of fat, and blood in an enormous stew. I had the stew part right. There were separate dishes of potato, greens etc. No meat, I promise you. No meat at all.
My question for poddies is: what do they do with the meat?
bababardwan
March 13, 2010 at 03:00 AM
I tell you what,this sheepish looking goat does look pleasant [but not sheepish].I love the character descriptions ,such as for Big Red Wolf:
"She is the wife of Big Big Wolf. She always blames her husband, and thinks he is a loser. Longs for mutton. Hits Big Big Wolf with a frying pan in basically every episode."
bababardwan
March 13, 2010 at 02:51 AM
Hey tal,btw it cracks me up that you've asked:
"Now children, what do we learn from this story?"
...and it's an excellent way to start a thread and see the different takes on it from the poddies.Once again inspired stuff from you.Champ !
changye
March 13, 2010 at 02:48 AM
> Now children, what do we learn from this story?
You don't have to be ashamed of spitting in public at all.
bodawei
March 13, 2010 at 02:35 AM
Tal, this is great, enjoyed it very much. When I glanced at your title quickly I thought it said 'Are Chinese sheep really goats', because I think they have a problem in that area. But this was so much better ..
What do we learn? The Chinese will eat anything?
bababardwan
March 13, 2010 at 02:06 AM
<i>"Now children, what do we learn from this story?"</i>
...how to upset the Kiwis during the 2011 Rugby World Cup and throw them off their game.
..thanks Tal

Tal
March 16, 2010 at 05:25 AM呵呵,真可怕的照片!