Circuituous earthquake celebration

here is the crux of the controversy over the book.

apparently yung chang and her husband in the book argue that mao was stalin's puppet and that the chinese state was in fact a soviet construct. although stalin helped with educating, training and supplying the chinese communists, yongchang and her husband have selected only the facts that support their argument(that mao was a soviet construct and therefore subsequently the state) and have completely ignored primary sources that negate it.

Also worth mentioning in this thread is the book 'Mao's Last Dancer' by Li Cun Xin

Hi bodawei,

I didn't know about the happenings in Australia (which probably happened in other countries, as well.)

It's a shame that the Michael Moores and Jung Changs of the world feel the need to over-reach, as their cases are already quite strong. By bending or filtering the truth, they weaken people's ability to believe that we can say anything objective about Mao, or 9/11 or whatever. They make it easier for people to tune out the discussion, to dismiss it as propaganda for/against Idea XYZ.

@miantiao, pete

Clearly the book has a strong point of view, directly influenced by the impact Mao had on her family.  That much is unsurprising.  But there is more to this story.

The author was criticised by a number of people in Australia who were invited to contribute material. They did not like the method (like information provided contrary to the thesis did not appear in the book).  The local sources were so unhappy with the bias in the published account that they went public in major newspapers.  The controversy provided a rare look into how such books are written - exchanges between the sources and the author were recounted in some detail by the sources.  Apparently the author was quite explicit about the kind of information she needed to support her position (that should have been a warning to the sources.)

There seems to be a lot going on behind the scenes on this story.  It seems more than coincidental that Majer Zhou/Zhou Yongjun chose this time to visit his ailing parents.  Also, as pointed out in the article, by arresting a permanent resident of the U.S. there are diplomatic implications as well.  Similar incidents involving U.S. citizens caused some major headaches for Taiwan in the 1980's.  I have a feeling that Mr. Zhou will be cleared of charges around say... June 7th. 

@pete

i read her 'wild swans' when it was first published, a long time ago now.

who has attacked the biography as biased?  never mind, i can guess.

i think a strident tone is absolutely necessary. i'm really looking forward to reading it. it'll make a great change from the strident tones of a different flavour exhibited in local tv programs.

anyway, two histories for me to bring back on the plane ;-P

Hi miantiao and bodawei

You guys are definitely talking about Jung Chang and Jon Halliday's book, Mao, the Unknown Story.

It is a tale of horror and dishonor. Some of the writing is tough going, and the authors made the annoying decision to use Wade-Giles Romanization. 

It has been attacked as biased. I'm not an authority on this by any stretch, but I think people take issue with the strident tone more than the research, which is extensive and includes a lot of Chinese and Russian materials. Jung Chang's life (and the lives of millions of other Chinese) was ruined by Mao. It's a bit akin to a Holocaust survivor writing a biography of Hitler. No doubt they have some invaluable insights. Just know what you're getting into.

Anyone know the book Miantiao is referring to?  I have only read the Philip Short one, it has a red cover in paperback. I've also read Mao's personal doctor's account - I read the Philip Short one and the doctor's account together - that was interesting. 

@bodawei

i can't remember the author, but it's a long work with a green cover.

@miantiao

which 'Mao' do you mean, there are are a number that I know of:

Philip Short (2001)

Michael J lynch (2004)

张戎 (2005) - author of Wild Swans

Is there a more recent one?

@tvan

the book is called 'mao'. it's a comprehensive and well researched biography of his life. 

i've just read an article in the Australian newspaper regarding zhao's memoirs, i'm not overly confident it wil be released in the mainland, of particular concern to the party leaders is zhao's charge that further incidences are unavoidable if democracy is not adopted as a political system.

much of what he says though is already known by those outside the mainland who have an interest in what happened, and why it happened.

that said, for the story and criticism of the party and revered members of the leadership to come directly from him, a well respected leader himself and well known for his sympathy for the people during the cultural revolution(if you want food, go see ziyang) sets a precedent and will no doubt create more interest and private debate among chinese.

the current leader was at zhao's side when he made his famous heartfelt appeal to the students at tsquare. don't expect a direct response from the party or the leadership.

@goulnik

What a great post - thanks indeed.  there are '649' commemorations in Oz coming up.

@miantiao, yeah, what a coincidence.  The book's called Prisoner of State and is based upon some tapes that Zhao recorded around 10 years after the incident. In the crazy patchwork that is China, it's already been released in Hong Kong.

What book on Mao are you referring to?

@tvan

i'm in oz but will be back in chengdu in july. i want to pick up a copy of 'mao' before i go back, it's banned in the mainland, but i've perused a copy that a uk friend of mine bought over with him. 

赵紫阳's memoirs hey! what an opportune time to be releasing it. i wonder who the co-author is? what's it called?

perhaps 'the liberation of the students day: the real story behind the myth'.

Miantiao, yes I was talking about 赵紫阳, though I doubt his upcoming memoirs will be in any bookstore near you.

You're pretty much right on re: 邓小平 .  It seems that China's great leaders of the 20th Century - 孙中山,　蒋介石, 毛泽东,　邓小平 - were all men of great accomplishments with corresponding great flaws.  Par for the course, I guess.  In Deng's case, it's hard to conclude that he didn't do more good than the other three.

On your quote, it implies a degree of Chinese exceptionalism that I'll have to think about; or maybe that's just general human nature as seen through a Chinese lens.

@tvan

you are referring to 赵紫阳？

about 4-5 months ago i posted his speech( in chinese) that he made at tsquare in 89 (you can view it on you tube, well, last time i checked anyway). he supported many of the requests of protestors for more transparency and freedom. his goal of resolving the protest through open dialogue and compromise was soon after knocked on the head by the hardliners.

邓小平 should be rightly credited for opening up china's economy to the world and therefore improving the lives of millions. however, he was the man pulling the strings that allowed 江泽民 to replace 赵紫阳 which opened the door to what followed.

here is an interesting quote by author 陈若曦( PhD in english lit, John hopkins university)，a native born taiwanese (1938, taipei)who went with her husband in 1966 to serve in china's red guard during the cultural revolution. they returned to taiwan in 73.

"Before, it seemed to me that being chinese was simply a matter of course, not something in which i had any choice. In the past few years I have come to realize that Chinese people are essentially tragic yet heroic, lovable yet loathsome. Even this most common type of person is the embodiment of several thousand years of history. His dignity is certainly not something that can be changed by an authoritarian political system"

It always pays to be safe.  Unsurprisingly, a search of Xinhua's site turned up nothing recent regarding the gentlemen in question.  

I don't know if it's already available in other countries, but this weekend a memoir purported to be Zhao's memoirs of the occassion will be released.  I'll probably buy it.  I heard it didn't add a lot to what is already known but, unless it's a hoax, it promises to be a rare first-hand account into these type of topics.

I wanted to be on the safe side of the Great Wall, but what goes on inside is sad and sick indeed.

Goulniky, 中國加油。  尊崇毛澤東。  共產黨萬里長城。

請原諒我上面的 “Padding".  你的標題又妙巧又諷刺的，但這是很悲傷的一條新聞。去看你的親人被逮捕而關押？二十年後？這些老古董怕什麽？

“惡 人 雖 無 人 追 趕 也 逃 跑 ； 義 人 卻 膽 壯 像 獅 子 。”

Proverbs 28:1