User Comments - pearltowerpete

Posted on: Lao Wang's Office 11: Wang in the Doghouse

Hi siteng,

Thank you for your comments. I need constructive criticism.

I must disagree with your suggestion of translating "去，去，去” as "come on." I agree that this is a very difficult phrase to translate accurately. But there is a very common, colloquial Chinese phrase "拜托！" which captures the exasperation and impatience of the English "Come ON!" If the speaker were a ditzy Clueless type, we could even translate 拜托 as "Puh-leeze!"

I'd be interested to hear from other Americans on this, but my first reaction to hearing someone say "go on," is not that they want me to continue speaking, but that they are being dismissive, which is the wife's tone in the dialogue. If I wanted someone to keep talking, I'd say "Okaayy..." or "So...." etc.

And yet we can't translate "去，去,去” as "Get out of here," which would be something like "滚蛋，” and is quite rude in the Chinese. [As a side note, the incredulous American's "Gettouttahere!" is 不会吧！].

The structure in the last line "不过就不过” is very common in Chinese. 不(verb x)就不(verb x) means that the speaker is not bothered by the fact that verb x won't be done. In my experience, this response usually follows a threat. So, "fine," does capture the meaning here much better than "Not live together, then just not live together!" or something literal like that. 

It would be extremely frustrating to try to apply this "fine" to other situations where the word "fine" would be used. No one would ever reply "不过就不过！” when you asked how they are feeling today. And if a police officer grabs you for speeding, he does not issue a "不过就不过！” But I thought that the students at CPod understood that we teach by context. If you can understand the guy's mental state as he says "不过就不过，" you will have a pretty good idea of how and when to use this phrase. This feeling for the language comes with lots of practice and exposure to different scenarios, which we try to provide here.

But I completely agree that there should be an explanation of this grammar structure--if not in the dialogue, then in the podcast. I can't give exact timelines, but our goal is to be able to put links to the Grammar guide into the dialogues. This will give you even more info.

In any case, please do not feel awkward about giving feedback or criticism. We may disagree at times, but I will always be ready to explain my reasoning, and to change my approach to best meet your needs.

Posted on: Lao Wang's Office 11: Wang in the Doghouse

Hi all,

We're on the same side here. There's no reason to say that I'm offering up "excuses" or "condescending" to you. If you don't agree with my reasoning, let's talk about it.

My role at CPod is "Translator/Host." Unlike John and some other Praxis employees, I do not come from a teaching-Chinese-as-a-foreign-language background. I'm a professional translator and sometime interpreter. I've lived off my Chinese for the last two years.

translating 那我们不过了 as "Fine, that's it," may be fine for you, but it is not for me. So how do I use this phrase? Choose the right scenario precisely like Lao Wang before I can utter it? What's wrong with translating  那我们不过了 let's not live together?

This is a valid question that other poddies may also be asking. Miantiao also offered many other suitable translations. Our suggestions capture the tone of the original, and they are realistic utterances for English speakers.

My task from the beginning has been to write natural, English-sounding translations that preserve the feeling and tone of the original texts, while also helping the poddies learn Chinese. In some cases, I add [--Ed.] notes to provide useful context. These notes and the popup annotations are where detailed, literal translations belong. They do not belong in the translation itself. I'm not here to write Chinglish dialogues.

We all know that people learn in very different ways. Some people want or need literal translations for everything. In my experience, that's a recipe for halting Chinese. But if you want them, I'm happy to provide them in the popup annotations or notes.

Learning the component parts of characters is a whole different issue. The most important thing here is recognition. With enough attention to phonetics and radicals, you can look at an unfamiliar word like 採 and be able to deduce something about its meaning (a hand, some fingers, and wood). Plus, you can often make an informed guess about its reading (cai) which will help you look it up in a modern dictionary. In this case, 採 cǎi means “to pick or gather.”

But if you are reading a text and you come across 刚果, it doesn't help you much to read it as "steel fruit." This is the Chinese for "Congo," and it's obviously based on phonetics.

There are hundreds of words and names like this, and even more important, hundreds of allusions, idioms, etc. Paulinurus, your example of 猫哭老鼠 is fine because it is a vivid, clear metaphor that doesn't take much time to think through. But what about phrases like 七上八下-- "up seven down eight?" Maybe you're able to remember it that way, convert it to something meaningful, and use it fluidly in conversation. But I'd rather just learn the phrase as "agitated."

Everyone learns in their own way. My task here is to make sure that poddies are learning Chinese in a respectful, friendly environment. I will provide more literal background about words in future lessons, especially below the Intermediate level.

Like my momma always said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. To say this in a Chinese way, we should avoid forced translations like 剥去猫的皮，做法不止一种. Instead, let's turn to Comrade Deng Xiaoping, who said 不管白猫黑猫，抓住耗子就是好猫，it doesn't matter if the cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice.

Posted on: Springtime on the River -- 次北固山下

Hi ruifen,

The grammar and word meanings in classical poems are quite different from those in modern Chinese. We can't just substitute modern meanings for each character-- some characters have changed meaning or tone many times throught the centuries.

Here, the phrase 残夜 is definitely referring to the last few moments of darkness. The word 残 is used in modern Chinese in phrases like 残疾 disabled or 残忍 cruel, but we have to take it in context. That's why even native speakers of Chinese need dictionaries and footnotes to appreciate these old works.

Posted on: Lao Wang's Office 11: Wang in the Doghouse

Hi paulinurus,

I don't understand why you're offended by "Strange Chinese phrases relative to common English usage." In the Klingon language, "Your mother has a smooth forehead" is a terrible insult, but I can't imagine a human getting too upset about it. Why should Chinese be any different?

You helpfully pointed out that this is an Intermediate lesson. Even at this level, the translations are supposed to be both educational and non-Chinglishy. During an argument, no native speaker outside of a Jane Austen novel would say "Go and trick a three-year old child! You have the skill to do so!" Have you ever heard anyone talk that way?

The remark is sarcastic both in Chinese and in English. I'm not sure why you find it unacceptable.

"To coast along," "to muddle along," and "to drift along" are all basically acceptable as translations for 混日子.

I understand that not all poddies are native English speakers. And I've been rightly criticized for overly folksy or odd translations before (see: "all hat and no cattle.") But translating 那我们不过了 as "Fine, that's it," is just not that much of a stretch. 过 here is short for "过日子” to live (together, in context). The translation I　chose is both accurate and authentic.

Chinese is more than the sum of the meanings of individual characters. Let's look at Chengyu. If you want to use these phrases in real life, you should not learn them primarily by their literal translations. It will slow you down and distract you.

For example, thinking of "鸡毛蒜皮“ as "chicken feathers and garlic skins”　instead of "insignificant details," makes mastering and using the phrase in daily life much more difficult.It's an extra lap for your mind to run before it gets to the goal of using the phrase in context.

Similarly, how many people really think of 美国 as "the beautiful country?" Is that how Chinese think of it each time they talk about it? In your mind, thinking of it as "America" is much more useful.

My advice to learners is, don't get obsessed with literal translations. They are fun to bring up at cocktail parties. But they will not help you learn the language faster or use it more effectively. They only mean that you are not thinking in Chinese.

Posted on: Lao Wang's Office 11: Wang in the Doghouse

Hi alexyzye,

Thanks for calling attention to this. The literal translation would be something like "if you want to break up, then let's just break up!" But I couldn't imagine people in the heat of an argument actually saying that, so I shortened it to a harsh "fine!"

In these upper intermediate and advanced levels, the translations don't have to be quite as literal as in the lower ones.

Posted on: Springtime on the River -- 次北固山下

Hi orangina,

Thanks for some great observations. To me, this poem illustrates man's puniness compared with nature and the seasons. Somehow it doesn't seem grim, but rather hopeful or at least settled.

Posted on: Zombies: Deader than Ever

Hi evasiege,

Good question. This is a situation where English could trip you up．I recommend thinking of 照顾　as "to care for" and "收拾“ as "to take care of." The zombie slayer would not 照顾僵尸 unless they were old and feeble and he had decided on a career change ;-)

In my experience, the most common usage by far of 收拾 is 收拾房间， to clean house, which is how I have spent many a lovely Sunday morning.

Posted on: Lao Wang's Office 11: Wang in the Doghouse

子曰： Wife who puts husband in doghouse, soon finds him in cathouse.

Posted on: 小太监进宫

Hi bababardwan,

Ha, don't give me too much credit. My point was that the people who killed eunuchs often assumed that any grown man without any facial hair was a eunuch.

That meant the unjustified killing of some anatomically intact but cleanshaven or babyfaced men.

Posted on: 小太监进宫

Hi bababardwan,

Thanks! And for poddies behind the cowardly clutches of the Bamboo Curtain, try proxyboxonline.com. It works for me!

Another sad tidbit about eunuchs-- there were periodic spasms of resentment about their power. There are reports of baby-faced grown men (like Moreschi) being killed because they were mistakenly assumed to be hairless eunuchs.