Love Tangle 3

不好意思， 应该说‘云南电视台。。

@RJ

You are right of course, my mistake.  It is 云南电台 .. (Yunnan Television) I was referring to.  I went to a big do tonight with local and overseas artists performing, very cool.  Tickets up front were an amazing 1,680 RMB but the Chinese taxpayer stepped in for us (and not many teachers in the audience I imagine.) I shouldn't drop names (ok I will) - 王力宏 Wáng Lìhóng sang and played the violin.  When asked to play the violin he said he was 垃圾 - I wondered if this was lost on the Chinese audience (no-one around me laughed).  It seemed a very Western expression, albeit spoken in Chinese.  I enjoyed myself.  

bodawei

I thought CCTV turned 50 in 2008? Founded Sept 2, 1958. Perhaps you are thinking of something else?

Hi bodawei

Probably you need some "skills/techniques" (and a bit of creativeness) when you plagiarize something, especially in the era of "intellectual property right" and "Internet". Nowadays it's not so easy for copycats to camouflage plagiarism. Outright plagiarisms would soon give themselves away. I love the story of "six stories", just interesting!

@changye

Some of my students are fans of Japanese anime - I like the fact that it seems to have bridged the culture gap.  One of the work groups they formed is named after the character called Naruto.

PS. It is difficult to talk about media and morality in the same sentence - the West has nothing much to be proud of.  On the subject of plagiarism, a successful producer I know says that there are only six stories in the entire body of world literature, told and re-told - you could argue that it is all plagiarism.     

PPS.  CCTV is turning 40 - another big birthday celebration in the PRC.  

In the PRC, even animations and cartoons are "preachy". They often carry moral messages, and some say this is one of the reasons Chinese youngsters don't like to watch made-in-China anime very much.

Ironically enough, people who make such "moral" anime works often don't have high moral standards in the PRC. For example, it has been exposed that some scenes (about 1% of the total scenes) of the recent successful typical "moral" anime "心灵之窗", broadcasted by CCTV (中国中央电视台), were plagiarized from scenes of a Japanese anime.

Actually, they've given a very good "moral message" to their children.

http://news.sohu.com/20090902/n266385514.shtml

Love the quote, Tal:

THE man from Manchester knew he was out of his depth when someone mentioned eunuchs in a storyline meeting and no one else laughed.

Suddenly his theory about the soap opera being a universal language didn't seem so convincing.

Brilliant. So, Gavin Menzies is writing for Granada TV nowadays, is he? Hmmm...

a fascist communist? blurring the lines between left and right, and guilt and shame, or guiltless and shameless even 

then in the future, a 混血儿 will be burdened by both shame and guilt? poor bugga

bodawei

Interesting point. I have to agree that the western model of morality is built on guilt (religion) vs the Chinese model which seems to be built on shame (face). Different means to the same end. Control the masses.

Moralising is definitely not just a mainland China affliction, it turns up in the Singaporean, Hong Kong and Taiwanese dramas too. Also, there appears to be a slight propoganda element in some of them too - I watched one series once that was pretty much singing the praises of the National Kidney Foundation of Singapore. I couldn't work out if they were sponsors or what. I particularly like the ones where the two 20 year olds love interests don't even kiss until their wedding day, and generally are that wholesome throughout the entire series. It can hardly be a reflection of modern Singaporean society!

Maybe it's just an in-built part of the Chinese psyche, wherever you are.

Actually, I never see the point in watching a never-ending soap. I didn't mind dipping into Neighbours as a student, but that's just cos it was on at lunchtime. But it was rubbish. The Chinese are definitely onto something with limited-episodes series!

@RJ

Truth is a virtue unless it is inconsistent with nation building dogma.  

Actually you are asking the wrong person - I was brought up a Baptist.  

But on a sort of related topic, you get a great discussion in China if you raise the difference between guilt and shame.  （As an ex-Baptist I am an expert on guilt - I am still learning about shame.)  The best illustration of the difference is that if no-one knows about you breaking the rules, shame does not exist. On the other hand, guilt is there regardless of who knows about it.  Chinese (on average) tend to be more motivated by shame than guilt, according to some academic research.  I have limited personal experience to draw on, on this topic.   

That one passed me by. Actually it looks like it passed on before I began studying Chinese, (which was in 2003).

A Chinese Coronation Street? A concept that manages to be both funny and scary at the same time!

Great quote here, (from a truncated article, sorry.)

THE man from Manchester knew he was out of his depth when someone mentioned eunuchs in a storyline meeting and no one else laughed.

Suddenly his theory about the soap opera being a universal language didn't seem so convincing.

More info here.

Did any of you in China notice 幸福街 xing fu jie - "Joy Luck Street" on Chinese TV? This soap-opera was a Chinese collaboration with Granada TV, makers of Coronation Street.

50 幸福街 episodes were shown, about 7 yrs ago, then it died, I think.

Interesting discussion of the "cultural friction" between Chinese and British, here.  Producers' and audiences' expectations clashed. "Morality" was a problem.

Ha! Not always! People can't bear too much of it!

bodawei

isnt truth itself a virtue?

@tal, RJ

My impression of Chinese people in their 20s for example (from a sample of about 140 in my various classes) is that they are more 'morality aware' than their Australian counterparts.  They are always up for a discussion about the morality of this or that.  Australian kids I know in this age group would tend to laugh at this 'pre-occupation' with morality.  The Chinese also are willing to assert that they are a more moral society than the West.  (That always brings to mind the 'brainwashing' someone mentioned.)  

But what interests me is that I think 'morality' is culture determined - so what the Chinese think is moral is not exactly the same as what we think is moral. For example, the oft-quoted difference between virtue and truth - is it the case that Chinese people may be willing to sacrifice truth in the interests of virtuous behaviour (and perhaps not even consider it a 'sacrifice' - I have seen this through Western eyes)?    

Any thoughts?  

Tal

Thanks. You have given me something to think about. And yes, thanks for the transcripts. Always useful.

Yo RJ,

I get the impression that Chinese people think it's right and proper to receive 'moral guidance' from TV drama and other media. But then (most) mainland Chinese seem to wholeheartedly approve of the way they are governed and the way the country is run. Internet censorship is generally considered to be necessary and right for example.

It will seem odd to us westerners I guess, because we grow up in a culture which idealises personal freedom, the right to choose, etc, and we scoff at being 'preached to' or told how we should live.

As to whether it 'works', I'd say it depends what you mean by 'works', lol. It creates a certain mindset, but I don't think it generally makes people more honest or virtuous.

Perhaps creation of the mindset and a moral 'self-image' is really what it's all about, that feeling of what's right and what's not.

Did you know that Chinese people generally think that westerners are quite sexually promiscuous? (Generally they'll use the euphemism 'broad-minded' - lol.) That's what comes from watching foreign TV!

PS. To be totally honest mate, I wouldn't in any version of the universe be caught dead watching Eastenders or Coronation Street, (you know I'm a Trekker right?!) But from a language learning point of view, the Chinese soaps are great. When they make you want to throw up, you know you're making progress with your Mandarin!

@matthiask - thanks very much for your feedback, I'm really glad to receive it!

Hi Matt

well that is way to complex to try and argue on a message board. There are plenty of moral people in the west but they dont get any press. I get your point. I just dont think its quite that simple. As for CNN - its more that they sensationalize, and the other part of that equation is the idiot that internalizes it in a bad way. I also find the sensationalizing of bad news and celebrity mis-steps disgusting. What celebrities do does not interest me at all.

btw is that a marriage outfit in your avatar?

_tal: thanks for your efforts. It's highly appreachiated.

Matthiask

Hi rjberki,

hmmm. Isn't that exactly what western countries are missing? Moral - and moral standards? <irony>Wait, I guess we would call this brain washing.

It's so much better that CNN and heroize the murderers and terrorists of the world. </irony>

<sad truth>In Germany, some kids are admiring the guys who are running amok in a school - because they make it on the title pages of the yellow press - just like stars. </sad truth>

Hi Tal,

When I read the China daily newspaper in China the police reports always take on the tone of a moral lesson. I imagine the Chinese language papers are worse. Does this really work? Are the people really that naive, or is the govt misguided in this approach? I find it quite entertaining.

I am disappointed to hear that you have such successful soaps in the UK. Maybe I should watch so I can understand the british mind :-) I love how Elsie is described as the tart with a heart. That should be interesting. I have always hated soaps though.

I'd say pop morality is big in China. My wife is fond of the kind of show that shows the horrors wreaked on loving families by 狐狸精!

A recent one had the young villainess seducing not just the father (portrayed as a hapless innocent), but then the teenage son after the dad decided that he couldn't betray his 老婆 any longer!

Needless to say it all ended in tears in a hospital mental ward with the mom gone mad, the son having a nervous breakdown, and the dad committing suicide by jumping out of the window.

Ah, CPod lessons sadly can never match such exquisite drama. 哈哈！

Hehe, I don't watch Eastenders or Corrie, but I reckon the Chinese soaps are not dissimilar to Neighbours. Except people aren't having arranged marriages to enhance business links and Paul Robinson isn't a patch on some of the Chinese baddies!

I have to say though, the Chinese soaps that I've seen always have a moralising tone - I'm sure pop morality only turns up in Scrubs or particularly bad Desperate Housewives episosodes.

Well, that sounds like the story of my life! Haven't seen my aunt in a while though. Maybe I should get a Chinese one, she can finish the job. 哈哈。

I wonder how Eastenders or Coronation Street would look through Chinese eyes/ears.

You're right. I think Lili and Zhangliang might be worth transcribing. Hang on though, I'm not done slacking yet!

Haha, if "argh, I've just been pushed down a well and am drowning, help help, omg, my aunt is trying to murder me" is what life is all about...

I have an unhealthy addiction to bad Chinese soap operas. They're often so bad they're hilarious!

I think those old intermediates were quite hard, if I remember correctly.

加油，加油！ You can never get enough soap opera vocab, it's what life's all about right? 哈哈！

Hmm... I was once toying with transcribing a few of those Lili and Zhangliang podcasts, they do have some really useful and interesting language. And Intermediate ones seem to be received with more enthusiasm than UI after all. Perhaps when I'm done 'slacking' I'll get on the job!

Oh, the Zhang Liang and Lili series at intermediate. I'm thinking that my soap opera vocab is somewhat lacking at the moment!

Don't worry, Love Tangle 2 has a whole 10 seconds worth of transcript now. Only another 9+ minutes to go!

哈哈！Sorry sebire, but as you say, here's your chance! ;)

Err... what's the other soap series?

Hmm, no Love Tangle 2, tal? Stop slacking and get back to work! Haha, maybe I'll have a go, and look at 3 in a bit. I really ought to go back and do that other soap series.

Well, hang out the flags, I finally finished this off!

If anyone out there still cares about these efforts of mine do please nitpick me and help me correct any mistakes.

This transcript is for this lesson by the way.

Feedback welcome.