URLLesson Introduction
Meat-laden fourth of July barbecues may have caused you to consider a jump onto the pescetarian bandwagon. It's so much more than vegetarianism for underachievers. To make the move easier, let's not learn how to say pescetarian in Chinese, and learn instead how to spurn meat and switch to fish, in this podcast.
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sarahjs says
July 7, 2008
A nice little lesson, I like it when the language is repeated such as 喜歡 Xi3huan. and 吃chi1, 肉rou4.
Makes for a really nice newbie lesson.
Also like the listening and writing part of the exercises!
clarsen says
July 7, 2008
Hey everyone. Check out my Chinese and English cartoons. Tell me what you think!
Cartoon 1
Cartoon 2
glacchia says
July 7, 2008
好吧
In another lesson I understood that this agreement is slightly different from 好的
With the first one you agree but your agreement is somewhat forceful, not so spontaneous; 好的 is instead more neutral.
Is it right or did I misunderstood?
Thanks,
Gilberto
wrcooper84 says
July 7, 2008
Amazing...China turned me into a pescetarian. Now that I'm back in the States, I'm enjoying the flexitarian lifestyle. I'm a slave to trends...
Could I say:
我不喜欢吃红肉。Wo bu xihuan chi hong rou. I don't like to eat 'red meat' (a category that includes beef and pork, but not chicken or fish)
Thanks!
michele says
July 7, 2008
I guess so Gilberto,
in 好吧 it also should be somewhat of resignation (un po' di rassegnazione), at least, according to the dialogues of some previous lessons.
pinkjeans says
July 7, 2008
你们看。。。那条鱼好象在笑。
nǐ mėn kàn 。。。nà tiáo yú hǎo xiàng zài xiào。
Look...that fish (in the pix) looks like it's smiling.
andrew_c says
July 7, 2008
我不吃肉，也不吃鱼。我吃素。
wo3 bu4 chi1 rou4， ye3 bu4 chi1 yu2。 wo3 chi1 su4。
I don't eat meat or fish. I'm vegetarian.
- Andrew / 阿度
changye says
July 7, 2008
Hi pinkjeans,
Good point. Actually, 鱼 (yu2, fish) is regarded auspicious in China because its pronunciation “yu2” is the same as that of 余 (yu2, leeway). So you can often see a poster like this in China, which is called “年年有余” (nian2 nian2 you3 yu2, every year you have leeway).
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=%C4%EA%C4%EA%D3%D0%D3%E0&in=8935&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=36&rn=1&di=2276689100&ln=2000
pinkjeans says
July 7, 2008
The saying 年年有余 (nián nián yǒu yú) actually means "to have abundance every year", and yes, we have fish during Chinese New Year every year. In Singapore and Malaysia, 鱼生 (yú shēng) is eaten from the 7th day (人日，rén rì，Man's Birthday)onwards. It's a salad of multicoloured crunchy vegetables with super thin slices of raw fish and a delicious dressing of sesame oil, plum sauce, 5-spice and tossed communal style with chopsticks while reciting auspicious phrases.
Acknowledgement to Beezy and My Little Rascal on Flickr for these lovely pictures.
wjefferys says
July 7, 2008
To amplify a little on what wrcooper84 wrote:
It is my understanding that '肉' rou4 by itself generally refers to pork (in contrast to the U.S., for example, where the most common meat is beef). If you want to talk about beef, it's '牛肉' niu2rou4, for example, and lamb would be '羊肉' yang2rou4, but if you just say '肉' it would usually be understood to mean pork unless context specified otherwise. Chicken would be '鸡肉' ji1rou4, duck '鸭肉' ya1rou4.
As wrcooper84 noted, '红肉' hong2rou4 would mean red meat, but I don't know if this includes poultry meat.
When I was first learning Chinese almost 30 years ago...remember, this was just after the Cultural Revolution, so economic conditions were very different from today, I was told that duck was more common than chicken, and chicken generally more expensive than duck.
Corrections welcome.
wjefferys says
July 7, 2008
changye wrote:
I am puzzled by this: The dictionary gives meanings for '余' "extra, surplus" and similar meanings, which makes sense (as in a person having plenty), but "leeway" (room for maneuver)? I don't understand.
The dictionary gives '余地' for "leeway"
Note that '' also rhymes with '玉', yu4, "jade" (although with a different tone). I don't know if there is any connection.
wufeifei says
July 7, 2008
wjeffrey: It simply means remainder, surplus, lingering or extra. Chinese nouns often consist of two characters for clarification, but in an idiomatic context one of these can be dropped, so "leeway" fits right in. Obviously, it sounds a bit weird here, so stick with the primary meaning. Although, when you have abundance of goods, you have more room for freedoms, you can spend your money more liberally, hence, a figurative leeway/margin. Ah, never mind. ;-)
jennyzhu says
July 7, 2008
I am a pescetarian for the month of July. Speaking of which, there is no equivalent of the word in Chinese. The only way to express it is a description of what it means. Not very fun when you want to tell people that you are a pescetarian.
andrew_c says
July 7, 2008
Hi Jenny, In my experience, a word like "pescetarian" isn't a whole lot of fun in English either... Using a word like that to specify the degree of vegetarianism is just asking for it. - Andrew / 阿度
mei9 says
July 7, 2008
hello!!!
nice lesson:)))
wjefferys says
July 7, 2008
@wufeifei
My point is that "leeway" doesn't mean "remainder, surplus, lingering or extra" in English. It really means "room to maneuver," such as when you have enough room to get around an obstacle (physical or otherwise). Or it can mean freedom or flexibility to do something. My take on the naked meaning of '余' is that it is more closely related to an abundance of physical assets (like money or other material goods), but now I'm not working in my native language, so feel free to correct me.
Here's what Wictionary says:
changye says
July 7, 2008
Hi wjefferys,
I should have given "surplus" instead of "leeway", but I just couldn't resist using "leeway" simply because I have never used the English word before in my comments! Anyway, pinkjeans explained 人人有余 very beautifully, so please enjoy reading her posting! By the way, I've also found some "auspicious" characters other than 玉 (yu4, jade), e.g. 裕 (yu4, abundant), 誉 (yu4, reputation), 娱 (yu2, pleasure), and 愉 (yu2, happy).
Hi wufeifei,
Thanks a lot for your covering fire!!!
wjefferys says
July 7, 2008
@changye,
Yes, I think that pinkjeans' '年年有余' (nián nián yǒu yú) "to have abundance every year" hits much closer to the English meaning of the single character '余' (abundance, plenty, more than you need, as I understand it)l, and makes sense in the context of people rhyming it with '鱼' to mean good luck or good fortune. Pinkjeans' context makes it clear why one would like to eat fish during Chinese New Year (or at any other time, for that matter). It could be read "eat fish every year," but of course everyone would know the context.
It may well be that the character you found,
裕 (yu4, abundant)
Is actually the source of the rhyme. That would make sense.
Best, Bill
wjefferys says
July 7, 2008
@changye, @pinkjeans, @jennyzhu
Here's an interesting problem, and possibly an explanation.
In written Chinese, it frequently happens that people wrongly substitute a rhyming character for the actual ("grammatically correct") character that was intended. So, for example, one might by mistake write '百' when you intended to write '白' (both sounding the same, tones different).
This is known as "白字" (literally, "white character"), but meaning the wrong character that is almost right).
I am wondering if the character '余' that we have been discussing shouldn't actually be '裕', so that '余' is really a "白字" for '裕'. That would make a whole lot of sense, as the clear meaning of '裕' is "abundance", which, rhyming with '鱼' (fish) would make clear the association with eating fish and good luck.
Friends who are Newbies: Please learn to use the online dictionaries. You can copy a character out of any place, and paste it here:
Then you can do anything you want. They will speak it for you, give you characters, give you the pinyin transliteration, whatever. There are lots of options. Look at the menu bar on the left, and use it!
Bill
changye says
July 7, 2008
Hi wiefferys,
Actually, 白字 (or 别字) are often seen in Chinese, and they always confuse us foreign learners. For example, 的 (de) in 我拼命的学习 is an often-seen 白字. The right sentence is 拼命地(de)学习. “象” (xiang4) is also often used instead of “像”, like 好象, but the correct word is 好像. It seems both of them have already become widely accepted.
As for 余 and 裕, I don’t think that your guess is right. Let me explain the reason. Firstly, their tones are different. Secondly, and more importantly, the traditional form of 余 is 餘, and its original meaning was “abundant food”, as the radical “食” clearly indicates. The primary definition of 餘 is “abundant” in all of my ancient Chinese dictionaries.
说文解字 (100 A.D.) also says that 餘 is equal to 繞 (rao2, abundant) or 饱 (bao3, full). On the other hand, the left radical of 裕 means “clothes”, and therefore 裕 originally meant “abundant clothes” in ancient times. Its definition in 说文 is 衣物繞也, which means “a lot of clothes”.
Food problem was historically very important in China, therefore it is understandable why people say 年年有余(餘) wishing they can eat fully. But 吃饭的问题 (food problem) is almost solved now, so I expect someone might begin to say 年年有裕 or 年年有娱 in the near future!
P/S. I love astronomy very much!
jsommar says
July 8, 2008
I'm really grateful for this lesson. This is my first time commenting as well. I love CP.com. I'm going to live in Hangzhou in September for several years and I feel so much better studying everyday. I do have a concern, I don't eat meat, nor do I drink alcohol of any kind. I would like to 'go with the flow' as Jenny and Ken say in this lesson, does that mean I can just skip what's on my plate? I don't want to be insulting, but I don't want to eat meat [seafood and fish are fine] and cannot drink alcohol. Any tips on what to say and how to be polite would be appreciated. Thanks!
stabby980 says
July 8, 2008
Chinese Pod i think is a very great website to help newbies and pros (that have exp with the language) alike already. and i've onli started watching the first lesson.
This is good cuz i wanna learn mandarin and i already kno a common phrase for when i go to dimsum fluently. IN MANDARIN XD i onli kno cantonese so yea ^___^ this is great!!!
wjefferys says
July 8, 2008
Hi Changye,
Thanks for your thoughts on 余,餘,裕 and 鱼. What you wrote is a pretty convincing refutation of my theory. Unfortunately, I don't have any ancient dictionaries available to me, so you are fortunate to have access to them.
And I loved your pun using 娱!
rosengeranium says
August 2, 2008
Anyone more than me having trouble with the listen and type test? I can't get 100% right even when I'm cheating - which means I look up the pinyin transcribation in the vocabulary section and write it into the slots of the test. I do so to be able to memorize the right answers, but when the form doesn't accept the transcribations we are given this gets confusing.
The reason why I cheat is that I speak a melodious language (swedish) and it's hard switching between melodies. A way to look up the right answers would be appreciated.
rjberki says
August 2, 2008
rosengeranium
the correct answers are:
xiang3
shen2me5
chi1
xi3huan5
These are tricky at times. Dont forget to mark the neutral tones as 5's.
RJ
chris says
August 23, 2008
wjeffreys - thanks for that online dictionary link! I've seen various links given in other comment threads to various online dictionaries, but I've never bothered investigating. However, for some reason I decided to give it a go today and I can't believe I haven't before. Incredibly useful!! Is there anywhere on CPod that helps to explain how best to use the online dictionaries? I particularly liked the pop-ups to show you how to draw the characters and the brush-strokes - this is something that, as far as I'm aware, is missing on Cpod - so thanks for the great resource recommendation! Now, both CPod and mdbg are in my favourites!
thanks, Chris