URLLesson Introduction
The 'Fear Factor' of Chinese tests, the sit-down-break-out-in-a-sweat test, the kind of test those standing-naked-at-the-front-of-the-class nightmares are made of. An essay in Chinese characters you say? By hand? Oh ho ho, that's just the beginning. Takers of the HSK test, we bow down to you. Aspirers, sacrifice yourself on the altar of books and prepare for a case of writer's cramp only 10 pages of handwritten Chinese characters can bring. Hear more to tempt you to HSK in this podcast.
sfrrr says
July 2, 2008
If I ever had any doubt, now I'm sure--no HSK, not now, not ever.
alexco says
July 2, 2008
The lesson mentions China is currently developing a HSK geared more towards Western learners. Any more details on that? Plus, I was curious how much weight HSK carries outside of China. I imagine one would get a blank look from an American employer after gloating about your high HSK score. With the explosion of Chinese studies in puplic school and higher-ed here in the States, I find many of these institution offer their own proficiency exams and certificates.
pchenery says
July 2, 2008
Although I have just beginners level skill in Mandarin, I will take the HSK test next year.
After I pass, I will consider job offers from the folks at Chinesepod.
Just a realistic dream-goal I have to replace Clay on QingWen and have Amber and Connie as my co-workers.
jennyzhu says
July 2, 2008
The Chinese are particularly skilled in test prep. The chain school New Oriental/新东方 was founded on the principle of sytematically training test takers to score highly in English tests such as TOEFL and GMAT. They have a feedback loop where students or staff who took those tests would report the questions back to the experienced academic team (most of whom seasoned test takers themselves), who would then design precise preparation. The problem with the approach though is it trains test takers rather than real language ability. However, the results are amazing which makes New Oriental the dominant player in the field and they are NASDAQ listed. But they were also sued by the ETS (Educational Testing Service）for unfair play.
rosslyn1037 says
July 2, 2008
I am a newbie to Chinesepod. I have been learning mandarin since March 2007. I now have a lot of vocabulary, and learning how to put words in sentences, trying to use the proper grammer, which is not easy. I can understand more and more all the time. It is a difficult language, but I am having fun doing it.
pchenery says
July 2, 2008
So, if I pay someone to impersonate me and if that person was trained by New Oriental, I will have my HSK certificate in time for Christmas. Sweet !
By the way, one of the politicians at my workplace just got publlicly humiliated for using the term "oriental". Seems like you can use this term for referring to food but not to people. Is this true ?
rjberki says
July 2, 2008
I would like to know more about the structure and content of the HSK test. How does one study for this test? What are the levels and what do they represent?
clay says
July 2, 2008
pchenery,
HSK, like the dialog mentions, has a lot of value just in the act of preparation. In fact, i know people who take it for that very reason. Sometimes when learning a language, there is no quantifiable goal, and this fills that void, and really motivates you to study and get a high mark. And the obvious result is that your chinese becomes better.
My old girlfriend used to hate "oriental" as well. She would say, "Rugs are oriental, people are asian".
next time you are in shanghai, you can come take my place for one QW, how bout that?
pchenery says
July 2, 2008
OK Clay,
You have a deal !
I can't slurp coffee like you, but my language skills are probably on par !
Plus I'm Canadian, Amber will appreciate that.
clarsen says
July 2, 2008
I WANT TO TAKE IT IN SHANGHAI!!! WHERE WHEN AND HOW CAN I FIND THE INFORMATION!!!!
I've found websites but most of them are less than helpful in finding out where and when in Shanghai you can actually take the exam. Annoying.
Can you guys help??
john says
July 2, 2008
Looks like some of our users are really hungry for more info on the HSK! We're much more communication-oriented than test-oriented, but we'll see if we can find some good links for you test-taking hopefuls.
xiaoanolga says
July 2, 2008
HSK, HSK....what a nightmare! But the preparation is a good way to cram in some more words. For those of you who are interested the University of Geneva (Switzerland) has published a list of characters/words/liangci you are supposed to master at 甲, 乙 et 丙 levels (http://www.unige.ch/lettres/meslo/chinois/general/HSK.html) with french translation (sorry friends!)
From the same University, Dr. Honghua Poizat-Xie has also published a book: "Préparation aux HSK: niveau de base, niveau élémentaire intermédiaire"
I'm sure there is some english publications on the subject too...
Courage!
Xiaoan
henning says
July 2, 2008
我等待可以毫无预习通过HSK。。。那天到了我才参加考试。到底来不来我不知道。 其实也无所谓。
反正我喜欢考试资料。 依我看CPod提供的Exercises不够挑战性。
sushan says
July 3, 2008
xiaoan, bien utile, merci!
henning says
July 3, 2008
Just discussed 增添砝码 with my collegue.
According to him its origninal meaning is something like "upping the ante" (putting more chips on the table in a casino setting).
christymel says
July 3, 2008
alexco you wouldn't get a blank stare from employers if they had dealings in China. Here we use the DLPT as a standard for testing languages but compared to the HSK it's a cake walk.
scotts23 says
July 3, 2008
i have to say to everyone, don't be scared to take the HSK -- only good things can happen!
i took the HSK basic last year in the US, and i remember them mentioning a scholarship, which i thought nothing of at the time. fast-forward to this april, when i received a phone call stating i had won an HSK scholarship to study in dalian for one month. i will be there in a couple of weeks. :)
so i definitely think it was worth the agony.
guolanusa says
July 3, 2008
我三年以前考过HSK,只是为了给自己一个学习目标,所以我没什么压力.我以为准备的过程很好完儿,学到了很多语法,生词.还有学到不少怎么考这样的试的有用的方法!
我认为这个过程对我的阅读能力,听力有好处,但是对我的口语没什么效果.
我的考试成绩让我的老师失望了,比他的意料低两级!为什么呢?都怪自己写汉字的能力太差了!虽然我的听力,语法,阅读的成绩都达到五,六级,我的综合成绩只达到三级.综合考试包括写汉字的能力.因为我综合的成绩那么差,虽然我的平均分达到五级,我只能拿到一个四级的"汉语水平证书".我的老师觉得很丢脸!
等我提高写汉字的能力的时候,我还想去再试一次!
dldshanghai says
July 3, 2008
Just found some of the samples of HSK, let's have a try, guys.
-------------------
to pick out the correct sentence.
1) A. 那一个真是好天 B. 那是真好一个天
C. 那是真一个好天 D. 那真是一个好天
2) A. 我让打电话她也来参加晚会
B. 我打电话让她也来参加晚会
C. 我打电话她也来让参加晚会
D. 我打电话让她也参加来晚会
3) A. 我收到来自北京一封的信
B. 我收到一封信来自北京的
C. 我收到来自一封北京的信
D. 我收到一封来自北京的信
4) A. 一点儿这个问题也不难解决
B. 一点儿也不难这个问题解决
C. 这个问题一点儿也不难解决
D. 这个问题也不难一点儿解决
-----------------
to choose the correct word.
1) 我最近很忙， 晚上都上课。
A. 在 B. 就 C. 连 D. 当
2) 那个梨他吃了一口 不吃了。
A. 都 B. 并 C. 还 D. 就
3) 在我们居住的院内，有很多叫 名字的花草。
A. 不到 B. 不出 C. 不动 D. 不够
4) 请你把这些香蕉 刘老师带去。
A. 送 B. 给 C. 往 D. 对
5) 这个办法 省钱， 省时间。
A. 虽然 但是 B. 不但 而且 C. 因为 所以 D. 要是 所以
dldshanghai says
July 3, 2008
It's the HSK(基础)样题.
caughtin says
July 3, 2008
这些题目好亲切啊！
chanelle77 says
July 3, 2008
Hi clarse, guys,
I am planning to take the HSK in december in Nanjing. From what I hear, the first levels aren't too bad. If you google a bit then you will find loads of info on the HSK. Too bad the mock test are not working anymore on the official site(http://www.hsk.org.cn/english/Default.aspx), but there is info when and where you can take the exam (also in Shanghai). Good luck!
cpodadmin says
July 3, 2008
Here the link to the official website. Dates, locations, and all that jazz is all there.
HSK-English Site
tommyb says
July 3, 2008
I never thought about this, but listening to the dialogue, I wonder why speaking of a standardized hanyu test, why refer to it as a western-style acronym such as "HSK"? How often are acronyms used in chinese?
I would think something like 汉平考 would be more appropriate to the nature of the language, and just as many sylables
sushan says
July 3, 2008
SPOILER (or, um, not...)
my answers on didshanghai's post
1-d, 2-d, 3-d, 4-d
1-a, 2-b, 3-a, 4-a, 5-b
vann0000 says
July 3, 2008
I wonder about the value of the test. Once one obtains the "Foreign Expert Certificate", does the HSK have any value? SAFEA regulations make no mention to the need for such a document, however it is certainly desirable to speak hanyu with a some degree of fluency. I wonder if this would garner preference with the Public Security Bureau's Invitation Letter?
bnangel27 says
July 3, 2008
didshanghai, is this right?
1-d, 2-b, 3-d, 4-c
1-c, 2-d, 3-b, 4-b, 5-b
chrissg1 says
July 3, 2008
didshanghai, what are the answers?
I got:
1.d, 2.b, 3.d, 4.c
1.c, 2.a, 3.d, 4.a, 5.b
hray says
July 3, 2008
Unless you have a specific need to take the HSK, I don’t see much benefit in taking it. The test covers four topics (listening comprehension, reading comprehension, grammar, and character writing). If you do poorly in one topic, your total score is reflected accordingly. So, for example, an American Born Chinese who speaks fluently and reads well could get a low overall score if their character writing is weak. Yet, this person could function very well in China.
The average person who wants to learn to speak Chinese would benefit more from an oral proficiency examination, which tests a person’s ability to express himself/herself and to understand oral speech (see http://www.actfl.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3642).
Cf. guolanusa’s comments.
helenhelen says
July 3, 2008
Could anybody comment on to what extent HSK's and Chinesepod's definitions of elementary, intermediate, advanced are equivalent? I mean, loosely. Obviosuly one is a test and one is (highly educational) fun and games.
I think I could use a quatifiable goal; it's between Chinese A-level and HSK level ? .
yuemeiqi says
July 3, 2008
I think it's really hard to compare Chinesepod and HSK, but most dialogues here (I haven't done any exercises yet) are colloquial Chinese while there's a lot of 书面语 in the HSK. The dialogues are a good way to practise for the listening part, though (the dialogues in the test are much shorter, so I'd guess you can get grade 4 or 5 with the Intermediate level).
auntie68 says
July 3, 2008
Here is my best shot:
d,b,d,c for the word order exercise;
and
c,d,b,b,b for the other one.
I found the word order exercise to be very difficult; reading the options made me feel dyslexic.
dldshanghai says
July 3, 2008
Congratulations, bnangel27 & auntie68
给你们一百分 :)
auntie68 says
July 3, 2008
Wah! In my case, I don't deserve any congratulations because -- in theory -- I have eleven years of "Chinese as a Second Language" under my belt, which culminated in a GCSE "AO"-level pass.
Having said that, the standard was so low (especially in terms of the vocab) that I could barely read the CPOD "Intermediate" pdf's when I first discovered CPOD.
That's the beauty of CPOD. Especially where vocab is concerned. And maybe it's also an argument (of sorts) for CPOD to pay a bit more attention to teaching rules of syntax -- a.k.a. "grammar" -- to users who are not ethnic Chinese like I happen to be. What was being tested in those questions was... syntax.
Sometimes I think that learning a language "like a child" is useful only as long as you actually are being immersed in the target language like a child ie every day, for most of the day. For the rest of us, it really doesn't hurt to be offered the chance to digest a few grammar rules, if these are presented in a succinct and practical way, in CPOD style. Oh well, this has probably earned me another scolding pm from John Pasden, so I'll stop here.
mikeinewshot says
July 3, 2008
I got the first group right, but had yet another variation on the second ie c, a, b, a, b
clarsen says
July 3, 2008
All the HSK websites are dead slow or just won't open and they just take forever to do anything here in Shanghai.
What in the world...? I'm afraid I would have to go through a local Manadarin school in Shanghai to be able to register for a HSK test... anybody know how to do it on your own???
Anybody?
guolanusa says
July 4, 2008
clarsen,
My advice would be just that...register through a local school where you are. I've never heard of it being done on-line, or on one's own. I went through a local school, a school that was not the school I was attending. This was simply the method I was told to follow. It may be that you have no choice but to go through a local school.
Good luck on the test!!
xiaoanolga says
July 4, 2008
"想想我门考英语四六级的时候吧, 考了半天还不是哑巴英语, 连个全整的句子都说不好!"
Ahah! if you study uniquely the HSK-way, for 英语 read 汉语...it is the reason why we need chinesepod!
But chinesepod will not prepare you for HSK (no equivalence there!)
helenhelen says
July 4, 2008
I realise that HSK means manymany hours' HSK-specific preparation. But which level to be preparing for might be gaugeable from ones c'podding habits, maybe?
Auntie68 - I did GCSE Chinese :) but my main issue with it was the fact that the register of language seemed quite childish and very artificial/contrived. For me there was actually a lot of new vocabulary and characters, which is why I'm still glad I did it.
xiaoanolga says
July 4, 2008
helenhelen, to gauge from chinesepod which HSK level to prepare for, one should more less know the extend of the vocabulary covered in the pods. Does somebody have any idea? For the grammar bit 'though, I think that one should prepare much more specifically. And the writing...well, they do not ask much at the elementary-intermediate levels (levels 3-8 which come into the form of one unique test) they don't ask you to write essays but just to fill in some characters. However you have to be able to write them.
Specific difficulties you do not encounter on chinesepod:
- more formal language
- speed: in the listening tests, you listen once and that's it. (no time to take notes,for instance)
- grammar: the vocab is usually quite easy in this part, but after reading distorded sentences after distorded sentences can make your head spin
- reading: here the voc can be much more difficult. You have to read quickly through texts and be able to answer to (sometimes) tricky questions
Take care about their wording: the elementary HSK test (Grade C of the Elementary certificate, level 3) is the minimum level required to be able to enter a chinese university in a science/ technology faculty. As such, it is reckoned to be equivalent of 800 hours of teaching at least in a modern chinese course (for 西方人) !
There are books to help the preparation and they come usually with recordings for training the 听力, here are 2 of them:
Hanyu Shuiping Kaoshi Dagang
Hanyu Shuiping Kaoshi Moni Shiti Ji
but I think it is nearly impossible to do it alone (at least for those of us who dont live in China): if you are able to, you're a real 冠军. Most (all?) people need tutoring for these tests, not only because of the chinese involved, but to be able to developp efficient strategies...and to drill.
And, last but not least, a HSK has a "sell by "date: after 2 years it is no more valid...so I better get on and revise again!
henning says
July 4, 2008
Vocab: From what I saw in demo / mockup HSK tests, the Elementry/Intermediate HSK is at the level of the Advanced lessons here.
Consequence: As soon as I become permanently bored vocab-wise with the Advanced level (< 3 new words each lesson) the HSK might become interesting. Currently I still encounter about 15 new vocab items per Advanced lesson.
Actually you do indeed learn some formal / written language at the 3 highest CPod levels, despite the fact that the dialogues are not filled densly with formality. For me it was CPod that enabled me to start decrypting news items.
My personal biggest weekness is definately my (hand!) writing skill and I have the suscpicion this might also be the case for some other pure-CPod-learners.
Auntie: We have the grammar show: The Qing Wens. There just can't be enough of them. Still waiting for the 是。。。的-QW and the 把-QW.
tommyb says
July 4, 2008
I received some HSK preparation books many years ago. Unfortunately, without the assistance of pinyin, or the ability to copy and paste a hanzi character into a dictionary on the computer, my ability to read and write chinese is greatly diminished
helenhelen says
July 4, 2008
Thankyou, Xiaoanolga :) The sell-by date means that it's not worth my doing, at least not for a while..
pinkjeans says
July 4, 2008
If I may jump in here, I would like to offer a personal perspective to the GCSE and 'O' level exams. Both GCSE and 'O' level exams are usually taken at 16 years of age. While the UK has dispensed with the 'O' levels and renamed their exams GCSE, Singapore maintains it (and the standard too), and if I'm not mistaken, other than certain English papers governed by the Cambridge Exams Board, these are governed by its own Exams Board. The UK GCSE Chinese as I know it and Singapore 'O' level Chinese are of very different standards. My 12 year old has just taken her GCSE Chinese papers, and I only encouraged and allowed her to do so at such a young age because it was to me not even of Singapore PSLE (Primary School Leaving Exam) standard. I was told by my native Chinese teacher whose child was studying in China, that the standard of Chinese in Singapore and China schools are comparable, though the content and emphasis are different. So, either auntie68 had forgotten her stuff, or she did not do the Singapore exams. Sorry, auntie...
helenhelen says
July 4, 2008
I think the standards used to be similar. I can see why they had to make it easier though; Chinese simply wasn't being taught as a foreing language in schools here. Untill recently the GCSE was taken almost exclusively by native speakers (and the pertaining literature was written with this in mind, making it totally inaccessible). The current course (as of 2000 + something) can comfortably be taught from scratch in 3 years, even by a relatively inexperienced teacher. Hopefully as Chinese becomes better established as a subject here the standards will go up..
pinkjeans says
July 4, 2008
How interesting! Thanks for the history on that, helenhelen.
auntie68 says
July 4, 2008
Hi pinkjeans + helenhelen: Thanks for explaining to me the difference between O-levels and GCSEs! I did the O-levels (... in 1984!).
But I don't think there's any way that even the O-level standards could come anywhere remotely close to PRC Mandarin standards. No way!
Maybe your friend was referring to the "Higher Chinese" ("HCL") O-level, which is a more difficult paper than "Chinese as a Second Language" ("CL"). Only the top 10% of the students taking Mandarin are allowed to do this paper. Even so, HCL only requires 3,500 characters; not a lot:
http://www3.moe.edu.sg/cpdd/doc/chinese/CLSyllabus%202002%20%20Folder/hzsl.html
NB: About 80% of the students in Singapore would fall into one of the following streams: Express, Normal (Academic), and Normal (Technical). Only "Express" goes on to do O-levels; the "Normal" students are prepared for vocational training.
The symbol "CLB" represents the "CL B-syllabus", which is aimed at the students who are weakest in Mandarin (10%). "EM1/EM2" are the students who are so academically weak, all-round, that their syllabus focusses on basic literacy and numeracy.
tvan says
July 4, 2008
Hmmm, Henning's fear, guolanusa's recommendations, and Auntie68's "only 3,500 characters" comment are making me nervous. I'm taking the Intermediate level HSK in San Francisco this fall and am self-studying.
Guess I'll have to really crack down. Otherwise, my HSK result will stand for "Horrendous Space Kablooie".
auntie68 says
July 4, 2008
Here is Singaporean Ministry of Education's character list, including when, if at all, each character is introduced:
http://www3.moe.edu.sg/cpdd/doc/chinese/CLSyllabus%202002%20%20Folder/b4/b4p1.html
I can't read any of the "HCL-only" characters! I am helping my friend's daughter, who is in Secondary One Express, with her Chinese, and they are still making the same mistake of trying to teach too many characters, without teaching the kids how to use them. After 11 years of this, I was unable even to give a taxi driver simple directions, or read the directions on a bottle of shampoo.
changye says
July 4, 2008
I’ve seen some exam questions of Japanese Language Aptitude Test (日语能力考试) before, and found it very difficult to answer them even for me, a native Japanese. They were not only difficult, but also very tricky. I felt that was a kind of IQ test rather than a language proficiency test. The same goes for HSK?
hedainian says
July 4, 2008
For all of you who are nervous about taking the HSK, don't be. I have been taking Chinese at a very intense level for three years, but I still learn new words here at ChinesePod (sometimes 7+ in an advanced or even intermediate high lesson). In spite of this, I still did very well on the HSK (high enough to direct enroll in college classes at Nanjing University!).
My suggestion is to take it. Even if you don't do well, you will have a chance to guage your own progress and prepare for the time when you want to "do well." Read Chinese newspaper often, listen to ChinesePod, and watch Chinese TV online. If you do these things often, you may be surprised with the score you get.
li73 says
July 4, 2008
@ tommyb,
How often are acronyms used in chinese?
You wouldn't know it, but acronyms are used all the time! Here are some examples:
an air conditioner is called 空调：空气调整器。
the Olympics 奥运会：奥林匹克运动会
Beijing University 北大：北京大学
I would think something like 汉平考 would be more appropriate to the nature of the language, and just as many sylables
Your question came up in my class in Chinese lexicon. According to my prof, the fancy, shmancy linguists in China are working out a made-in-China acronym system. However, "HSK" has become a brand-name of sorts. You could call it 汉考 and people (those who are concerned about exams and credentials) might understand. Syllables 音节, or are they morphemes 词? 我老师是词典编辑，因此我比较相信她的话。要不我们请潘杰(John P)，来分享分享？
@ henning, I agree with your alignment Cpod with HSK levels. Advanced here just gets you to the 中级there. What's more, the proficiency exam evaluates literacy -- which seems to be what garners much respect in Chinese society. ”一个人有没有文化“ refers not specifically to culture, but also to literacy and education. Perhaps our cpod animators can comment here, on that. Is this a Confucian value?
martian2 says
July 4, 2008
Undoubtedly a tough test, but after a year and a half of self-study here in China, I took the HSK, and got an 8, so it is quite possible to do well after a short time studying. The only part of the exam I find tough is the speed of the long dialogues in listening, they are generally very very fast, much faster than in ChinesePod, even at the highest levels. I find that they are almost unrealistically fast, I think at intermediate there is no need, I think they should be more realistic, but maybe that will be addressed in the new version of the test.
If anyone wants to take it, especially Clarsen, then go on the HSK website, get the schedule, it will tell you when the registration period is, then in that time just rock at any major university, I went to JiaoTong at XuHui, and ask the first foreigner you see where to go to register, its that simple. And if anyone wants to employ an HSK 8 Brit in Shanghai, let me know!
changye says
July 4, 2008
汉语水平考试 is targeted for foreign learners, so using HSK, instead of Chinese characters, is a good marketing strategy. On the same token, TOEFL is beautifully translated as “托福” here in China. It’s very clever.
The funny thing is that HSK is the acronym of “pinyin”, but not the acronym of “Chinese Language Proficiency Test”. Which do you think is “cool”, HSK or CLPT? I imagine that the word HSK was invented as an analogy of TOFEL.
As for acronyms such as UN or ICBM, I don’t think they are frequently used in Chinese, except for computer jargons. Even NATO is represented as 北约, and I respect this attitude of Chinese people toward their language.
guolanusa says
July 4, 2008
martian2, 我很好奇, 你说自己是英国人, 自学了一年多的中文, 就达到了八级!
真不容易吧, 我学了三年, 其中两年天天写两个小时的汉字, 还是不能考那么好, 有没有学外语秘密可以告诉我们?!
auntie68 says
July 4, 2008
martian2, are you really from this planet? Congratulations, I'm in awe of your achievement. A grade 8 on your first try, and you did the test prep yourself. You're a real inspiration for the rest of us. 真佩服你！
pinkjeans says
July 5, 2008
Waah, martian2, that is really solid!!!
changye says
July 5, 2008
I’m a guy who never takes an IQ test simply because I fear to know THE FACT, which is also the reason why I have no interest in HSK. Thankfully I don’t need a HSK certificate, and therefore I have no plan to take the test in the rest of my life. I want to spend time on learning things that interest me.
As for speaking speed, Chinese people actually speak fast. In particular, news announcers and emcees speak very fast. You can say that amount of information in Chinese news shows is very big, at least the number of words is very large, although censored news is not necessarily informative.
xiaoanolga says
July 5, 2008
Another comment for all of you who intend to take the HSK (and are preparing alone, otherwise your tutor will tell you)
The test is a multiple choice formular, 1 question, 4 choices. And they assess your results in this way: 1 correct answer = 1 point, 1 incorrect answer: 0 point.
Consequence: even if you have no clue which answer to give, just tick one (you have 1/4 probability of getting the mark)...don't loose time thinking, but start reading the possible answers to the next question (if you are in the tingli sections, it will get you clued about what the dialog is about! and about which details you should paid attention).
HSK: it is also about beating the system!
Xiaoan
PS: for whose of you who were wondering if it is worth their while professionnally to take the HSK, they should consider their (potential) employer: job/studies in the PRC, then it is clear that an american/european test is little or no use for them . In Taiwan...I think that they have their own proficiency test (which of course include the use of 繁體字)
martian2 says
July 5, 2008
Haha, there is no secret, my special HSK combination was: girlfriend who only speaks Chinese + always been good at tests + study 6 HSK specific books before the exam, amounting to something like 30 mock exams, including one book which just had 60 zonghe sections in it, which nearly killed me.
For everyone that claims that they have no interest in the test, its pointless etc, the point is everyone needs a goal, otherwise they lose motivation, as I did the second the test finished. I dont go to class, dont have any other tests or goals by which to measure myself, so telling myself that I had to get a 6 or higher was the only way for me to focus myself. Taking this test meant I really zoned in and was able to do 7-8 hours a day for a month of study, work permitting, and my reading ability came on leaps and bounds. I do agree it isnt an ideal test, and that it is really hard, but you gotta aim high, right? And for those with no other goal, it always gives you something to go for, to tell yourself you will get a certain grade, or better last times grade.
changye says
July 5, 2008
Hi martian2,
＞ the point is everyone needs a goal,
＞ otherwise they lose motivation
You are very right, and my goal (or aim) happens to be other thing than HSK. If learners can’t find things that help them keep motivation, I believe that HSK should be one of good and handy motivators, especially for guys who live outside China. I admit that learners need to concentrate on their study at some point.
henning says
July 5, 2008
martin,
8 hours a day Chinese sounds like a fun way to spend the day. However, for me that would also mean that my sleeping budget per day would fall way below zero. Guess I need some kind of time warp device.
Fortunatelly, I personally don't need a HSK to keep motivated. Chinese is the hobby I need to relax.
Undoubtly the HSK has CV-value. It is an objective standard. I have seen quite a few bold claims of "Chinese basic proficiency" by persons who in fact would struggle even with the Elementry level here...
benson says
July 5, 2008
Alexco,
I'd also like to know more about this "适合欧美学生的HSK”，because I think the current HSK system is very unfair (making people hand-write characters is already a thing of the past, and then constraining your HSK score by the level of your handwriting (instead of averaging all the parts of the test, which would seem to me to be the sensible thing to do, and would mean that someone with excellent listening can make up for weak writing) is even more unfair), and really 让我头疼。
So, C-Pod community, who dares to answer my question, and liberate millions of Western Chinese learners from spending hundreds, possibly thousands of hours writing out characters? Anyone disagree that writing characters by hand is no longer necessary?
半文盲的Benson
martian2 says
July 5, 2008
benson, that post is retarded, how can you claim that a Chinese test is unfair cos it requires you to write in Chinese? Whats next, a driving test where you just sit in the car and tell them when to turn?
I hardly think that 16 characters (what is required on the current intermediate) is a major stretch, they are generally not particuarly complicated characters anyway (I am obviously not talking about the advanced exam here, or the new exam). And if you cant write characters, it is still possible to get 60% on the final section, which would probably get you a 6, for an overall 7 if you are ok in the other parts. This is the old HSK, the new HSK, "for Westerners", whatever the hell that means, actually requires far more writing, as it needs essays/written answers to questions etc from the student, its just far more rounded, as it is not only reading and listening skills, but writing and speaking too. So if you dont like the sound of that, get yourself in for this years HSK cos I think (only think) that it might be the last of this type.
Writing characters is a major part of learning and understanding them, seeing how they are put together, and helping to anchor them in the memory.
xiaoanolga says
July 5, 2008
martian2,
How true...about writing characters I will always remember my first ever chinese teacher (at the Uni, in a newbie course) who calmly announced to the bemused class that we were all illiterate as we were only able to read AND write less than 500 characters !
HSK is supposed to be about a general grasp of the chinese language. In fact, it was one of the weak point of the old (actual) system, that it tested above all passive 本领!
And how on earth, benson, are you supposed to cram all of those hanzi in your head for a long period (hopefully permanently) in your head if you do not how to write them? Chinese characters are much more than just unicode or GB5 encoding: they have a life of their own and it's no wonder they gave rise to that stupendous art form : calligraphy.
Well, perhaps, some people can learn just from looking, and others do need the physical feel, the hand's and arm's movements to be able to memorise things...
Anyway, there's a life outside HSK
Xiaoan
tvan says
July 5, 2008
benson, to answer your question, "Anyone disagree that writing characters by hand is no longer necessary?"
I passionately disagree. I agree that you can certainly get by with just a computer for writing. In fact, you can get by without knowing characters at all. However, knowing characters brings a deeper understanding of the language. Hand writing each character involves a further mental deconstruction of that character and its individual components. This in turn leads to a deeper understanding of the writing system and a concomitant increase in your depth of knowledge about the language.
As a foreign learner, the "necessity" of a particular skill depends upon your desired level of understanding; and writing, while by no means required, is a quantum step forward in that understanding.
auntie68 says